Pak---once again relying on D'Este's superb book, you might want to read his remarks about the Cisterna action. Brutal combat, well described.
DJ

to 210cav,
thank you, you are a field marshall among lowly generals.............

So far every one has presented all the proper facts, of this campain If I'm not
mistaken was not lucas sacked in north africa for his lack action ?
Mark Clark was or could have been a good chief of staff but was not a leader
at any level {msgt M.P.Smith 503 P.I.R} my dad was there he could not even talk
of this with out breaking down . Clark wanted Lucas to succeced with what was on the
beach he [Clark ] only reenforced the beach head to keep from losing all hands.

ponysoldier

The Horse The Gun The Man

amen ponysoldier, you speak for me. should of had patton ............oh well...................

Amazing , John P. Lucas was a well-known artillery officer. An excellant trainer of Soldiers, he was selected to lead the force into Anzio after Clark sacked the previous VI Corps commander. He never got relieved in North Africa. You might have him confused with another corps commander. A fellow by the name of Lloyd Fredendall leader of II Corps was returned to the US after the Kasserine debacle. He was replaced by Patton and then Bradley. Fredendall did not get reduced in rank while Lucas suffered for his time in command of the Anzio beach head. A large part of his problem was his inability to impress the British. They viewed him as a headquarters bound (which he was) commander. Very difficult to demonstrate leadership from a bunker. I went to Anzio and the headquaters where Lucas located his command post. It is several stories below ground. He was anything but a coward. However, the impression that the placement of his headquarters left on Soldiers in the field was not of a bold, dynamic leader.
DJ

a lot of german generals led from the front.

So did a lot of fine American (and British and Canadian) general officers

well goody, goody for them..............................lol

i think it was longstreet that said"its kinda hard to lead from the rear"

That's why we triumphed over a demonstrable evil---and, won!

i guess i've never taken history to seriously, to painful for to many. both for allies and axis. i don't make light of it, speculation and what-ifs interest me more. it happened and that is all there is to it. to many died needlessly on both sides and simplistic answers are always the norm of these speculations. does it really matter who did what when, it happened and that is the tragedy of this particular piece of history. i like military history and hardware very much, but in my heart of hearts wish neither had been invented.
chris

Being a Euroropean i take history very seriosly most of it happened on our front door,being brought up in a small village in Scotland in the Fifties,i can remember a lot of men who
were as we say "not the full shilling",and who can blame them.There were also people
whom we called DPs....Displaced persons,in one small place in the Highlands it was like
a view on Europe,they came from everywhere,we even had a chap we called Tiger,an
ex German tanker,who never did go home.As far as i am concerned,Right fought might
and Right won
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich

Arthur--I hear you. Nothing glorious over aiding, abetting, and dying for such a despicable regime. Thank the Lord, better people said enough and applied themselves to the task.

i see my point was missed. sure their is evil in the world, but what is past is past and we can't do anything about it. just hope it never happens again.

As a Soldier better than I routinely stated "Hope is not a force multiplier." Prepare for war in time of peace. We need to recall the past and use it as a basis for making a better world.

They say that history never repeats itself,in Eourope it always has,its time we all take note of what has happened,and make sure the grave yards were worth something,to us all
Germans included.
Arthur
Am alba Mannich