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Armor/AFV: AA/AT/Artillery
For discussions about artillery and anti-aircraft or anti-tank guns.
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WWII Gun sights in transport?
varanusk
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ARMORAMA
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Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Spain / Espaņa
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2020 - 10:18 PM UTC
I read somewhere that (German WWII) artillery sights were dismounted and stored while transporting the guns to avoid damaging them.

However, I have not been able to find a good image of how it looked and which part(s) were removed, as either the photos are blurry/dark there or the area is covered with a tarpaulin.

I am looking for the leFH18, but I guess other German guns would be similar.

Anyone can help? Thanks in advance!
Frenchy
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2020 - 11:13 PM UTC
Here's the Panoramic Telescope Rbl. F. 16 (Rundblickfernrohr 16 (Rbl. F. 16) ) used with the 10,5cm le FH 18 :

http://www.questmasters.us/sitebuilder/images/German_RblF_16_Optic_Sight_with_Box_001-827x520.jpg

http://www.questmasters.us/sitebuilder/images/German_RblF_16_Optic_Sight_with_Box_002-365x520.jpg

and here's a view of the sight mount :



H.P.
Biggles2
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Posted: Monday, September 14, 2020 - 11:53 AM UTC
And where was the gunsight box kept during transit...strapped to the inside of the gunshield, or stowed in the towing vehicle?
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, September 14, 2020 - 05:28 PM UTC
I'd vote for the latter, as I don't see any mounting brackets for the box on the shield...

H.P.
Bonaparte84
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 - 01:29 AM UTC
Look her for the complete gun sight in its transport box:
https://www.kpemig.de/Wehrmacht-Rundblickfernrohr-16-im-Behaelter-dieser-ueberlackiert-Klare-Optik
Doesn't look like something I would attach to the gun when it is shaken around during transport.
varanusk
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ARMORAMA
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 - 01:53 AM UTC
Thanks for the replies, much appreciated!!

I wonder if the Zieleinrichtung 34 was also dismounted or kept in place...

ArtyG37B
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 - 04:16 PM UTC




Wow! the panoramic telescope sure hasn't changed much.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 - 07:47 PM UTC
Piece of trivia: The RSO (RaupenSchlepper Ost) was, among other purposes, evaluated for towing the PaK-40.
it was deemed unsuitable since the jerking motions of the steering caused the gun to be jerked sideways which jerked the gun out of alignment. This made it necessary to zero the gun again after each "road trip".
Usually it is a case of mounting the sight on the gun/carriage, now the alignment/zeroing of the gun to the sight attachment point was all f-ed up.
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 - 10:02 PM UTC
So they decided to put the PaK-40 ON the RSO rather than behind it



H.P.
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, September 15, 2020 - 10:19 PM UTC
Yep!
Getting the gun cradle closer to the rotation point reduced the swings a lot
trickymissfit
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Posted: Wednesday, October 07, 2020 - 01:57 PM UTC
I don't care who owns the piece being transported, two things ae never moved with the gun. The telescope, and is there is a firing lock it goes it's own journey. Normally they don't travel together, but tend to arrive within minutes of each other. In my case never on the same chopper or truck either. Some units go so far as to have a person carry the scope that is not part of the section. We never went that far. The firing lock was kept with the AG, but sorta hidden away. You can shoot without the scope if you got your stuff together, but your outta business without the lock.

the box the scope came in was normally stashed away, and never seen. The Gunner usually takes care of it, and usually wraps it in an undershirt, and then stuffs it inside a sand bag. If you see the box, and your on the otherside; you shoot the box to shreds.

90% of the time my unit moved, the Colonel had the scopes and primers on his ship. The firing lock moved on the very first in bound load with each gun, and the AG carried about a dozen primers in his pants pocket. Lower right for a reason. It's all like Chinese fire drill when said and done. The autocollumator travels by itself with a crew. We never had one laying around that I ever saw. Six guns in and laied in less than an hour. Tobe exact the first two were registering while that last two were being laied. They were never around after an hour and a half, and have seen them gone in forty minutes. They'll be back everyday till the pits are built if needed. They usually bring in two extra FAC's to cover all bases.
gary
taylorrl
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Posted: Friday, October 09, 2020 - 10:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I don't care who owns the piece being transported, two things ae never moved with the gun. The telescope, and is there is a firing lock it goes it's own journey. Normally they don't travel together, but tend to arrive within minutes of each other. In my case never on the same chopper or truck either. Some units go so far as to have a person carry the scope that is not part of the section. We never went that far. The firing lock was kept with the AG, but sorta hidden away. You can shoot without the scope if you got your stuff together, but your outta business without the lock.

gary



I commanded three different US Army artillery batteries (M110A2, M101A1, and M102) in the late 80's - early 90's and was the XO in a different M110A2 battery. The firing locks were always on the gun. The PANTEL (gun site) was also always with the gun. On the M101A1 it was carried in its case attached to the shield. For the M102 and M110A2 it was usually in its case in the gunner's lap. The standard was that the battery was laid, safe, and ready to fire in 8 minutes after the first gun stopped moving. It took a bit longer at night. My best time was 2 minutes 36 seconds to have the 6 gun M012 battery laid, safe, and ready to fire.

Rick
trickymissfit
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Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 01:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't care who owns the piece being transported, two things ae never moved with the gun. The telescope, and is there is a firing lock it goes it's own journey. Normally they don't travel together, but tend to arrive within minutes of each other. In my case never on the same chopper or truck either. Some units go so far as to have a person carry the scope that is not part of the section. We never went that far. The firing lock was kept with the AG, but sorta hidden away. You can shoot without the scope if you got your stuff together, but your outta business without the lock.

gary



I commanded three different US Army artillery batteries (M110A2, M101A1, and M102) in the late 80's - early 90's and was the XO in a different M110A2 battery. The firing locks were always on the gun. The PANTEL (gun site) was also always with the gun. On the M101A1 it was carried in its case attached to the shield. For the M102 and M110A2 it was usually in its case in the gunner's lap. The standard was that the battery was laid, safe, and ready to fire in 8 minutes after the first gun stopped moving. It took a bit longer at night. My best time was 2 minutes 36 seconds to have the 6 gun M012 battery laid, safe, and ready to fire.

Rick



yes but your moving on the ground as one complete unit. I moved by air 90% of the time, and it was Division policy that no firing lock crossed the wire with the piece. The scope was an issue in itself. If a sling or whatever hit it in flight, your pretty much out of business. Never gave it a second thought. Remember you gotta register that gun as soon as it's laid. You take the scope off, and you gotta re-register all over again. At Sill we always left the firing lock in place, but that was also a different setting. In combat your always trying to make yourself the one in control. The very first time we hauled a 155 in to rebuild the recoil system, everything was removed and stashed away by orders from the Chief Of Smoke (he stood there and made sure). No spades either; I might add. Flying them out was similar, but for other reasons. To save weight, as early Chinooks were limited to 12,000lb. I never paid all that much attention to 105's moving out, but do know they were made tobe unusable per Division policy. M110/M107's never got out our way, as we were 12 miles past the last road west. They could have, but never did.
gary
trickymissfit
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Posted: Saturday, October 17, 2020 - 01:41 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I don't care who owns the piece being transported, two things ae never moved with the gun. The telescope, and is there is a firing lock it goes it's own journey. Normally they don't travel together, but tend to arrive within minutes of each other. In my case never on the same chopper or truck either. Some units go so far as to have a person carry the scope that is not part of the section. We never went that far. The firing lock was kept with the AG, but sorta hidden away. You can shoot without the scope if you got your stuff together, but your outta business without the lock.

gary



I commanded three different US Army artillery batteries (M110A2, M101A1, and M102) in the late 80's - early 90's and was the XO in a different M110A2 battery. The firing locks were always on the gun. The PANTEL (gun site) was also always with the gun. On the M101A1 it was carried in its case attached to the shield. For the M102 and M110A2 it was usually in its case in the gunner's lap. The standard was that the battery was laid, safe, and ready to fire in 8 minutes after the first gun stopped moving. It took a bit longer at night. My best time was 2 minutes 36 seconds to have the 6 gun M012 battery laid, safe, and ready to fire.

Rick



the first 155 I was on still holds the U.S. Army hip shoot record at 3 minutes 49 seconds from the command. Still on the record books at Bragg as of a year and a half ago.
glt
HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 01:00 AM UTC

Quoted Text

yes but your moving on the ground as one complete unit. I moved by air 90% of the time,...



Right, and the original question was about WWII artillery pieces, no airmobile movement there. Your reply is irrelevant to the conversation. Rick's information is more relevant to the question and accurate.