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Dioramas
Do you love dioramas & vignettes? We sure do.
Operation Anthropoid
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 03:12 PM UTC
Sorry, had a technical problem trying to include this image:

Removed by original poster on 03/16/18 - 10:07:02 (GMT).
Dioramartin
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 03:00 PM UTC
Well Marian, actually there was a #3 tram due at 10.32am but it was running 45 seconds late...kidding...but I’m considering changing my call-sign to Diotramin’.

So it sounds like the Czech report Frenchy’s dug up might answer all questions (thanks H.P.) so Marian please thank your partner for looking at it – you’ll have to give me her name which will join yours and Henri-Pierre’s in the Credits list when I’m finished. I’d be particularly grateful for an accurate/verbatim translation of the photo-captions on pp 86 - 94, and the red captions in the pic on p. 90. (I can see I was mistaken about Gabcik’s escape route, and I’m interested in who/what is “Leuge Schranek” emerging from the tram....?)

It’s becoming harder to make any definitive statements, but if the trams had not been there at the time (and therefore not material to the immediate investigation on the day) surely they would have been moved, so that the photographer wouldn’t have needed to take a picture of the car through the tram doorway. The sketch/drawing, and Frenchy’s latest photo also seems to support the idea the trams were in situ, particularly if it is a “re-enactment”.

Thanks too H.P. for the 1909 tram #297 shot, I’d found two pics of restored tram #2077 both viewed from the front but tantalisingly difficult to see down the sides. Clearly they’re both 1909 models with doors at each end like “Heydrich’s”, and yours shows the livery is all red with gold lines on its flanks.

Buonasera Edo, glad you could join the party & welcome to our elite group...sometimes wrong but together we march towards the light! The trams – these 1909 models – really did have doors on all 4 corners (check the most recent photo above with Frenchy’s on March 14) which maybe compromises your argument. Regarding trams-lines/directions I think the evidence is still strongly in favour of the sketch/drawing of March 14 being correct.

I’ll wait for the caption translation but I’m not sure Frenchy’s most recent photo is a “simulation” i.e. a re-enactment, I think it’s still the actual scene. Heydrich’s car has gone (it should be visible from that angle) but the tram-cars open/closed doors and particularly the open window in the right-hand tram are identical – was that necessary for a re-enactment of the tram’s position? And if it’s supposed to be a re-enactment where is a/the car? But hey I haven’t been wrong for at least 5 minutes so it’s probably my turn again.

Whatever, the bottom line for building the dio seems to be that those two tram-cars are virtually identical except the front one has the roof-superstructure/pantograph.

Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 03:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

notice also the 2 figures in the tram: one is clearly a german military (on the cap on the right) the other one is an officer from the transportation company (look at the dress). this last one is very interesting as it seems to be near the driving compartment of the cab.



As this picture shows a reconstruction of the attack, these guys are probably members of the German investigations team...

H.P.
edoardo
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 11:19 AM UTC
i cannot resist adding my 2 cents on the tram dispute!
in the last picture there are 2 trams: one going up hill (the one with 2 cabs in front of the picture) and one going downhill (almost hidden by the trees on the right side of the picture). so no swapping tracks but instead 2 tracks that are used simultaniusly. Trams do have doors only on one side and ususlly the open on the right side of the traks. when the trams reach the last station it turns around a roundabout and comes back the line (so the doors are always on the right side as we drive right side). so again the two cabs in front are going the same direction.
of course there could be cabs that are only trolleys (the one with 1 door at the middle) but also 2 ‘engine’ cabs can be joined together but one has to leave the engin in ‘neutral’ (sort of). in the convoy upfront, the cab on the left has the pantograph lowered (neutral) the one on the right (again the leading one as it was going uphill) has it up.
notice also the 2 figures in the tram: one is clearly a german military (on the cap on the right) the other one is an officer from the transportation company (look at the dress). this last one is very interesting as it seems to be near the driving compartment of the cab.
ciao
edo
guni-kid
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 01:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hmm maybe I should have titled this blog “Pandora’s Box”.

(...)



Isn't that always the case with the likes of us starting to talk about accuracy questions from a modellers perspective?

Thanks for the pictures and the link H.P. They are much appreciated and I'll let my girlfriend have a look at the document you linked and ask her about specifics and details according to the diorama ideas. She really is very interested in everything Anthropoid, so this is the first time I can get her to be actually be interested in modelling... so of course I'm going to go that route here
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 07:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I’d always assumed the right-hand one in this view was a driving car



You're right about that Tim, if you look closely to the right-hand tram car, you can notice the roof mounted pantograph (visually pointing to the man/woman standing in the curb).

This would mean that trams going in two opposite directions can use the same track (alternatively I hope )...

On a side note, I've read that the grenade explosion shattered the windows of the nearby tram and shards of glass maimed passengers.

Here are a few restored Prague tram cars :

http://web1591.fge1.5hosting.com/lfr-wp1/?p=7547

This one, the "1909 Ringhoffer Motor" appears to be a good match IMHO.



If you have some time to spare, just take a look at this 20-page article from a Czech magazine that deals with the trams seen on the scene and the circumstances of the attack (at least I guess so ) :

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/55ffc53de4b07f44d4c86be8/t/59287d4815d5db85bdfc7a3e/1495825742160/84-103.pdf

It's in Czech, but you can copy and paste the text and the pics captions in Google translator...

One example : "View of the set of cars ev. No. 2275 + 640 simulating the position of line 3 at the time of the assassination" :





H.P.




BootsDMS
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 07:01 PM UTC
Just one thing (and I admit to not having re-read every last thread or attached detail, or indeed, even re-watched Op Daybreak) but is it not possible that the trams - travelling in whatever direction - would not have been present at the actual time of the attack?

Sure they're parked up after the attack, presumably because the tram driver saw something serious going down, and in any case would not have wanted to incur the wrath of the Nazis by blithely driving past; what I'm saying is, depending of course on what you're actually going to depict, conceivably the seconds when the Sten jammed, Heydrich stood up in the car, and the Gammon grenade was tossed in (or something approaching that action packed moment) and the base-size of the diorama, there may be no need to portray a tram at all.

There would still be enough to convince the modelling viewer that this was a depiction of a serious attack on a senior Nazi. Or, if you must have a tram, why not just say, have a sort of truncated version on the edge of the diorama base - assuming that is - that one was not travelling past exactly at the time of the assault.

As I say, just a thought but would remove the onerous task of tram conversion.

Brian

PS I am NOT suggesting you now research 1942 Prague Tram timetables!
Dioramartin
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 06:25 PM UTC
Hmm maybe I should have titled this blog “Pandora’s Box”.

Marian - re your 1st post - Well said on all counts. I did mention the aftermath in my introductory post, it’s a delicate balance to find between the pleasures of model-making whilst not losing sight of the absolute awfulness of what’s being depicted, or rather in this case the implied reprisals. Inevitably thoughts turn to whether Heydrich’s life was “worth” approximately 5,000 civilians’ lives, and that’s by no means with the benefit of hindsight - some of the local Resistance predicted the consequences and argued to have Anthropoid cancelled. The arguments in favour of going ahead regardless presumably centred on the hope it would spark a general uprising which would ultimately save more lives than would be lost in reprisals. All I know is that if I’d been sitting in their place at that time in mid-1942, with the Nazi empire at its zenith and no obvious prospect of relief after four years of tyrannical occupation, I don’t know which side I’d have been on and just thank God I wasn’t there, as we all should.

Regarding the trams, as I said before I don’t think Frenchy’s 14th March image was taken at the time because of the altered telegraph poles, but they are on the same line. I must admit the pantograph suggests it’s coming towards the viewer (and is that a driver in the window...or a guard?) but I think the above sketch is correct in showing the trams’ directions. Perhaps logic doesn’t work for Prague trams but I would think trams coming towards the viewer would surely run in the same direction as Heydrich’s car on that side of the road i.e hugging the curb, conforming with driving on the right-hand side of the road. Having said that, that truck seems to be driving on the left or is he just overtaking? Whatever, for all I know maybe trams sometimes reversed direction on the same line... but it’s all academic because if there’s one thing my trams won’t be doing, it’s moving!

H.P. – thanks yet again, I’ve got a couple of pics of a restored 1930’s-era tram in red but yours are great because they show the reason I was asking...looks to me like two-tone red & tan on the sides, not all red. But now I’ve got a new problem: If I understand these trams correctly the driving tram has its doors in the centre of the car, and passenger-only cars have their doors at the ends, like in your 1st photo. If so, the two trams parked in the “Heydrich” pictures seem to be both passenger cars...except I’d always assumed the right-hand one in this view was a driving car:



If anyone’s still awake out there, it’s kinda important I sort this out because I have to heavily convert MiniArt’s European tramcars...but to what? Talking of sleep, it’s past midnight here now & I need some - à demain
guni-kid
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 05:46 PM UTC
Mhhh... that's interesting, since your sketch and the pic show the trams going uphill indeed whereas I thought (together with my girlfriend) it might be coming downhill... (for mentioned reasons which I still find valid). So what to make out of it now? It could be that the tram on the picture is going the "right" direction (as I think) BUT at a different time than the assassination just as H.P. wrote...

For the colored pictures: it's always likely that they were colored later... but yes, the trams used to be red and still are:

https://czech-transport.com/index.php?id=156

:)
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 04:36 PM UTC
Here's a sketch of the scene I've just came across. I don't know whether it's accurate or not regarding the displacement of the trams. I guess it depends on the info it's based on but at least it matches most of the period pics I've found...



Talking about the tram color, it looks like they were (Ferrari ? ) red indeed. Here are some 1942 pics :





H.P.
guni-kid
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 04:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here's another view of the "crime scene" but the tram pîctured here is a different one (obviously moving in the opposite direction )



H.P.



I showed this thread to my my Czech girlfriend, who used to live in Prague for quite some years and knows a LOT about Anthropoid (she showed me all the places). According to her this tram is actually moving in the "right" direction, meaning it be probably the very tram we're talking about at the assassination. Here is what she told me (I quote):

"Because "Pankrac" Sign is in the front, because it might still be the one passing just seconds later and the car behind moves too quickly - if it were moving, they would crash. And you know how it looks in there, I think the house was up there, not down the street.

I think it is still the original tram which was stopped there, and the one was going in the same direction.

But I'm just guessing."

And if you have a look at the pantograph (is that the right word for the device to get the energy from the cables above to the actual vehicle?) it also indicates the Tram moving into the direction of the viewer (which is down the street, it means, on the picture Heydrichs car must have been on the left just outside the picture). What do you think?
Removed by original poster on 03/15/18 - 11:20:13 (GMT).
guni-kid
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:35 PM UTC
Don't wanna be the wise ass here, but only Kubis was Czech, Gabcik was Slovak (which IS a difference given the political and national situations both back then and nowadays). Anyway, shouldn't hurt your Diorama plans in any way What might be of interest is that there were actually more than just the two involved, being around there and giving signs for the actual thing to happen... but since you know the movies and stuff you obviously know that as well... so yeah, I might have been a wise ass here, sorry

More important: I'm excited to see someone building that one up since I have also seen all the places connected to that incident myself (the street corner, the church, the houses where the resistence members lived, the hospital Heydrich died in a few days later, and the very, very depressing site of Lidice the village that was erased after the assassination attempt... After you have seen and learned about that you will really understand why to hate fascism and all its populist revenants... Anyway, will be following closely here!
Dioramartin
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 03:06 PM UTC
Thanks again H.P. that’s also new to me – although I think it was taken later, the telegraph poles on the far side seem to have changed from photos taken on 27/5/42 but it’s still a useful view. As is this one which I found last night, I had no idea the ground rose up a slope at the back until...



It’s all helping me to fill in the blanks of a full 360˚...and it’s beginning to dawn on me that this will indeed have to be a Dio-surround production. Gulp
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 07:44 PM UTC
Here's another view of the "crime scene" but the tram pîctured here is a different one (obviously moving in the opposite direction )



H.P.
Dioramartin
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 06:23 PM UTC
Yes that one’s strange, why didn’t they just move the tram? I’ve been comparing the shadows in the nine photos I have & making an assumption they were all taken on the day. If so it looks like the photo of the sten on the sidewalk was taken first because the sun’s overhead. Both doors seem to have been closed (as much as Heydrich’s could be) until mid-afternoon, then the passenger door’s open/half off its hinges for a while (such as in the one I posted yesterday), and then closed again for the later afternoon photos such as in the tram window view above. Both windows are up throughout so Heydrich couldn’t have got out without opening the door, and Klein’s door presumably just swung shut after he jumped out.

The “4” card on the ground in the above view can be seen in another photo with another nearby - presumably marking either Heydrich’s or Klein’s shell-casings firing at the escaping Kubis on his bike before Klein chased Gabcik forwards and off to the left of the car. The missing number-plates could have more than one explanation – either never there, or removed by the police?

Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 04:37 PM UTC
Here's a more rarely seen (IMHO) rear view of the Mercedes (picture taken from inside the tram) :



H.P.
maartenboersma
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 03:45 PM UTC
Intresting subject,i always like damged tanks,cars ,planes and ships ,so i will be watching your progress.

Thinking of Reinhard H ,i would go with an all black car .
But the are plenty restored versions with a two tone body Black &dark green or dark blue .
What every color you decide it needs to be super shiny
Dioramartin
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Posted: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 - 03:16 PM UTC
Brian – Indeed, put 3 modellers together in a room and you’ll come out with 9 opinions. It would look cool in green, although in an unusual moment of clarity I wondered whether it would have looked too much like 1930’s British Racing Green & therefore a highly unlikely Mercedes or Nazi-regime choice for 1938 onwards? Whatever I’m over that question (this one’s for you Mike F.)...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg

But here’s the next one: I haven’t seen every available account yet (and even then eye-witnesses are generally unreliable) but I’m wondering if Heydrich’s door was blown open, opened by him before collapsing, or wedged shut by the explosion & opened later by investigators - its position varies in the photos taken on the day. And if you think that’s a hair-splitter, consider driver Klein who chased after agent Gabcik - yet his door’s closed in all photos. He was supposedly “built like a barge” and unlikely to have vaulted out, so I wonder if so-called suicide-doors were spring-loaded to close on their own? While some say Klein died on the day (and others that he was “murdered by RAF-type vigilantes in the 1990’s”... all with false handlebar-moustaches chortling ‘wizard prang’ presumably), the common version is he was shot in the leg(s)by Gabcik during the chase & survived with a limp into old age, so his story’s the one I’d really like to find - no luck so far. I feel a Grassy Knoll coming on...

As for too much research – well the only firm decision I’ve made so far (apart from the car colour) is to take this extra fact-finding time to make this dio as accurate as possible. No doubt I’ll probably still slip up on something(s) but personally perfection’s the only goal worth going for. This phase has already proved very worthwhile thanks to you guys and besides, I’m waiting for the kit’s delivery so I’d rather twiddle a mouse than my thumbs. If it turns out I can’t make the car look good/accurate enough there’s little point buying or building anything else.

H.P. – you sir are a Scholar and a Gentleman & I’m particularly grateful for that 2nd link - the pic of the abandoned sten is gold-dust, plus a couple of those other crime-scene views I’ve never seen before either, all perfect for my purposes. I’ve ordered Callum Macdonald’s account of the event, maybe it has some/all/even more of those rarer photos but I still really appreciate you taking the time, thanks again
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 08:44 PM UTC
A few period pics of the scene in this gallery :

http://www.horydoly.cz/turiste/pomnik-atentatu-na-herydricha.html?galerie=65758&image=34224#topgallery


Quoted Text

I assume the owner’s claiming his car was Heydrich’s…



The guy in the picture is a Czech historian who believe this car could indeed be the real McCoy :

Related article (in Czech)

H.P.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 07:05 PM UTC
Tim,

As always at the research phase there's a danger of getting wrapped around the axle (no pun intended - or at least not much of one!); as one of the references pointed out there was more than one vehicle in Heydrich's fleet,but it seems pretty clear to me that the vehicle on that day was black.

It would have to be a pretty dark green to appear as dark as it is but I'm happy to be proved wrong, but to be honest, I'd get cracking on the build - aim for black unless in the meantime something overwhelmingly accurate comes to light.

A shame really, as I'd love to see the final result in something like bottle green or say, something akin to British Army Bronze Green, but now I'm getting wrapped around said axle (!)

Sorry if this appears as a harangue -I'm just keen.

Regards,

Brian
Dioramartin
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 06:38 PM UTC
Many thanks H.P. I’d seen the first link & the discussions (I’m ignoring the number-plate dispute!) but your second link’s new to me; I assume the owner’s claiming his car was Heydrich’s…





I’m not at all convinced. Admittedly a lot could have happened to it over 70 years or so but my guess is it was only ever a standard 320. I doubt green's original either unless a Merc expert can say otherwise but perhaps it explains the Wiki entry?

I seem to be wading into murky waters…
Frenchy
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 04:51 PM UTC
Some food for thought (but I guess you've probably seen this already...)

http://lauritzlauritzen.com/en/mercedes.php

https://zpravy.idnes.cz/foto.aspx?r=domaci&c=A090918_204303_domaci_pje

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=179832

https://forum.axishistory.com//viewtopic.php?t=124805

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=26208

H.P.
Dioramartin
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Posted: Monday, March 12, 2018 - 03:45 PM UTC
Awesome, many thanks Robert. Here's that Wiki entry for Op. Anthropoid: "Heydrich's green, open-topped Mercedes 320 Convertible B reached the curve two minutes later." Hmmm....