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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Modern Armor Modeling Trends
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 03:44 PM UTC
When I first started building models seriously (by this I mean using some sort of reference beisdes the box art), the Vietnam War armor seemed to be the trend in the 1980s with NATO vs. Warsaw Pact kits coming along in the late 80s. Of course, in the 1990s, the Gulf War was the trend. Today, it seems like the Balkans and surrounding areas are the latest trend. Toss in a few kits from the Somaila mission along with modern Russian armor picking up speed lately (probably due in large part to the availability of prototypes after the Wall coming down). Things are looking up for the modern armor builder, more kits, more references, more modern (updated tooling) kits in general.
viper29_ca
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New Brunswick, Canada
Member Since: October 18, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 04:35 PM UTC
I would have to agree!!!

Not to knock the WWII guys.....but in my opinion Modern Armor is where its at.

When I look at the stack of armor kits staring back at me.....my mind is filled with so many ideas as to what I can do with it. (See my post on the Anti-Air Varient of the Bradley...actually was hoping you would take a look and let me know what you think Sabot). And the collection is growing at an alarming rate as the friendly people on Ebay are helping out...LOL

Just in plain view from where I sit at my computer....not far from my workshop.....I can see the likes of Tamiya's Challanger I's both the Mk.I and the Mk. III, as well as Tamiya's M2A2 Bradley, the M2 Bradley w/interior, the Merkava I, the LVTP7A1, M113, M577, M247 Sgt. York, Dragon's BTR-80(my current project), BRDM-2, BRDM-3 w/AT-5 Spandrals, T-80, MLRS w/M260 Rocket Pods, Italeri's M901 Hammerhead, and HEMMIT, ICM's BM-21 GRAD MLRS truck.....(almost afraid to even think about starting this.....amazing amount of parts, Academy's Flakpanzer Gepard, and Arsenal's BRDM-1 w/interior....and that is just what I can see.....if I went digging in my basement....I could probably find kits I forgot I had.

From this a plethora of things come to mind that I could make with these....either by themself or in a diorama......sometimes my imagination gets the better of me when thinking up situations for these kits.

Also with the possibility of a new Gulf War brewing.....many more ideas can come to mind!!!!
shiryon
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New York, United States
Member Since: April 26, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 05:51 PM UTC
I'm glad for the trend towards modern armour. I built all the requisite M4s and pz4s as a kid. Its apleasure to build stuff I served on or was around when I was in. I especially like all this new Israeli stuff coming out from the manufacturers. from Academy's plastic kits to legends resin kits.

Josh Weingarten
aKA shiryon
ARENGCA
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Arizona, United States
Member Since: February 13, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 05:33 AM UTC
Ditto to all of the above. My preference is modern armor (although I have been known to pick up the odd Pzkw or M4), and I am really glad to see the increasing selections. Now if I can just find a decent BMP1! For years I put off getting it, and now that I want one, everyone is OOP! Sigh.

Maybe I'm just ungrateful!
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 05:53 AM UTC
This is almost sacrilegious! You Lads need help. Armor models are only World War II classics. I will try to help you return to the fold.... #:-) #:-) #:-)
Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 06:50 AM UTC
I was not talking total armor building trends, WW2 is still stronger than modern armor. I was talking about the trends within modern armor building.

I have all the Tamiya, Monogram and Italeri Shermans as well as just about every DML Sherman to include the M4A3E8, M4A3(76)W HVSS, M4A1 Early, M51 Isherman, M4A3 POA-CWS-H5, Firefly Vc, M4A4 w/rockets, and several Academy US WW2 GMCs like the Hellcat and Wolverine, Priest, LVT. Even have some Axis stuff.

My main genre is and still will be modern US.
jackhammer
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North Carolina, United States
Member Since: November 12, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:18 AM UTC
Yes,modern armor has picked up in the model kit areas but, the severe lack of modern figures makes this fustrating.Yes,there are a few figures coming out but in comparison to WWII figures,it's miniscule! This leads to many dioramas being done possess many of the same elements.Figures can severely constrain a potential diorama due to lack of figure selection. Let's face it,even if you are an awesome armor modeler,scratch-sculpting a figure is HARD!!!!!! This may lead to less of a subject being sold(Hard to believe someone wouldn't buy a subject they like because of lack of figures but....stranger has happened). I am more than pleased that modern armor is on the boom and look forward to some of the upcoming kits enthusiasticly!
(:-)
NimitzFan
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:28 AM UTC
I do like the recent trends with ICM, Skif, and Trumpeter adding new vehicles to the want list. I am a little dissapointed that most of the DML/Dragon modern armor is OOP. I hope that they re-release them again.

210cav
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 07:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

IMy main genre is and still will be modern US.



Rob--there you go with those SAT vocabulary words again....
Jaster
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Michigan, United States
Member Since: January 15, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 09:39 AM UTC
I was a Modern Armor junkie when I quit building 10+ years ago and that is still where my interest lies. The variety of kits, accessories, etc out there is GREAT! My current project(s) will be alternate and future (1-5 years out) history dioramas. My basement is full of unbuilt kits depicting the Gulf War of '91...

Back 10-20 years ago there was a real shortage of "modern" stuff. Now there is plenty! I am confused by DML's OOP kits with the apparent interest in Modern stuff these days.

Jim
ti
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Dalarnas, Sweden
Member Since: May 08, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 10:03 AM UTC
Just thought I'll add my little contribution to the topic. WWII is still strong for all old and young modellers. When I got started on building modern armor I looked for a very long time for others who were also into the same theme. It took a good while and came across a couple. Not many at all. I'm a big modern armor fan and only do modern stuff. I would like to see more people to be able to call my own
Don't get me wrong, I love to see WWII stuff too but they just don't have those high-tech curves I love so much in modern stuff.

I hope to see more modern fans :-)
sarge18
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 12:57 PM UTC
I completely agree that, for the most part, Modern Armor is where it is at for me. Although my collection is not huge, the majority of the ones I have are modern, or have modern tendencies. There is a huge collection out there of WW2 stuff, especially figures and ideas, but it's primarily limited in actual hands on knowledge. How many of us can wander down to the local motorpool and pick the brain of the soldiers there? Certainly not on anything from WW2, and most of our references are either from very excellent scholars and authors, or photos, and even, many times, very conflicting concepts of how it "should" be. But, with Modern Armor, one has the opportunity to hop on the web, and ask someone who is near what they are looking for about a vehicle. Or, if they are near a military installation, wander on and ask a question. Plus, although many photos were taken in other wars or conflcts, it is not anywhere near the prolification of photography, like there was from Desert Storm, Afghanistan, or any of the other problem places we have been. Every soldier has the opportunity to take photos, something definitely not available during WW2. And with references, history is subject to intepretation. Unless you were there, at that time, you probably won't know why someone painted or mounted something the way they did. But, with modern items, you CAN get that info, within a decent amount of reason, sometimes even from the source, as some of our Armorama members were participants in those conflicts.
viper29_ca
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New Brunswick, Canada
Member Since: October 18, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 03:44 PM UTC
Just a note to those of you that are looking for the OOP Modern Armor Dragon kits....

A great place to look for these is in Ebay. For the most part, if you watch the auctions and look at the bids, you can usually end up getting the kit for up to half of the original retail...despite the kit being OOP.

I myself have gotten quite a few from auctions on Ebay....mind you, me being in Canada, I have to watch and see what the exchange will end up being....but can still get them cheaper than what I could buy them for retail.

So far I have picked up Dragon's T-80 the one without the reactive armor....I think I paid like $10 for that, also picked up the BRDM-2 for about $7, the BRDM-3 with the AT-5 Spandrel missles for about $7, and have a BMP-1 on the way for about $8.

I am still looking for a few of Dragon's kits....specifically the BRDM-2 with the SA-9 AA missles......it is a definate hard to find kit...and when you do...the auctions for them usually take off!! As well I am looking for the SS-c1 Scud with MAZ 542 Launcher truck.....again a hard find, and is usually pretty pricey....my best friend nabbed one from an auction for about $15.....he got lucky..as they are usually going for $25-$30. I already have the Eduard PE sets for these 2 kits...2 for the Scud...one for the SA-9.....got all 3 from auctions on Ebay for approx $18 for the 3 of them....now I just have to find the kits!!!
2-2dragoon
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Washington, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 05:57 PM UTC
I just got an M48-A2 Monogram off of Ebay... I wanted it for my Vietnam M48A2 dozer and now I have it! I don;t have to retro-grade one of my A3's and can build my Heavy Cav Section... 11th ACR D Company. It would make a great diorama.
penpen
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
Member Since: April 11, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 11:40 PM UTC
Although, it looks like there is more and more interest in israely armor.
NimitzFan
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 02:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Just a note to those of you that are looking for the OOP Modern Armor Dragon kits....

A great place to look for these is in Ebay. For the most part, if you watch the auctions and look at the bids, you can usually end up getting the kit for up to half of the original retail...despite the kit being OOP.



Yes, I unfortunately already know about e-bay. I have finally purchased all of those modern russian armor pieces...much to the chagrin of my wallet.

(:-)
Bravo-Comm
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Texas, United States
Member Since: March 20, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 07:32 AM UTC
(:-) #:-) WHY I WAS BUILDING MODERN ARMOR, WHILE MOST OF YOU LITTLE BOYS WAS JUST A TWINKLE IN YOUR MOMMA'S EYE'S AND M.A. IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO. SO GET ON BOARD OR GET LOST........"JUST KIDDING FOLKS" Actually I have built a few WW-2 Tanks in the past. BUT I find myself being drawn more to the Modern Armor Stuff. Though I have to say, That I've seen some really great work on the the Shermans, M-10's and other WW-2 stuff that you folks have been doing. And I have to commend the Excellent work that you do. It's great that we have that ability to build in minature scale, Some of the most powerful, And MOST DEADLY Weapons of Modern War. Both past and present. Keep On
building folks.

DAGGER-1
BroAbrams
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Washington, United States
Member Since: October 02, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 08:55 AM UTC
I don't know, Dagger, sounds like your old enough to have been doing WWII stuff when it was still considered modern! Just kidding, I also really like the stuff I see here a lot.

Rob
viper29_ca
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New Brunswick, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 09:32 AM UTC
Well I just came back from our only Hobby Shop here....and the only one within a 2hr drive....and we came across a sad discovery......in his order book from his supplier......there is no listing for any Modern AFVs from Dragon.....all that is listed is some modern figure kits in 1/35scale, but all of the 1/35scale armor that they are producing now is the '39 to '45 series....ie: WWII

I guess any that you find on your hobby shop shelves you should grab up, as it looks like it will be awhile before Dragon produces anymore modern kits.....makes finding them on Ebay that much better!!

On the other hand....it looks as if Trumpeter is going to pick up where Dragon left off....seems that have a very wide variety of modern AFVs and at pretty decent prices. I know that most of their new AC releases coming out are quite pricey....but with the list that he had that he could get...there wasn't an AFV over $30 retail....and those are CAN prices!!!
penpen
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
Member Since: April 11, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 09:34 AM UTC
I'm often amazed by what people call "modern armor".
Everybody agrees to call a T55 or a M47 patton modern armor... while to many young modelers they belong to a far past, something like the sherman...
NimitzFan
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 09:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm often amazed by what people call "modern armor".
Everybody agrees to call a T55 or a M47 patton modern armor... while to many young modelers they belong to a far past, something like the sherman...



I too am often puzzled by that label. When I think of Modern Armor I think of 1990's and newer. I think that the Cold War Era label should apply to the T-55's and such. But then that is just my opinion.

Sabot
Member Since: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 02:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm often amazed by what people call "modern armor".
Everybody agrees to call a T55 or a M47 patton modern armor... while to many young modelers they belong to a far past, something like the sherman...


You've got to remember, we generally break down armor modeling into three basic genres: WW1/pre-WW2; WW2; post-WW2. The "post-WW2" becomes modern.

Add to this the fact that new, modern armor evolves continuously. I consider an M1 modern. Someone just entering the modern model building arena may consider it old, pre-Gulf War and the M1A1 and M1A2 as modern. To a WW2 builder, Vietnam is modern. To a Gulf War/NATO builder, it is not. I find that Korean-era armor leans towards WW2 and Vietnam leans towards modern. Probably due to the equipment used. In Korea, the US Army used WW2 era equipment. In Vietnam, the US Army used equipment that soldiered on well into the 80s and sometimes into the 2000s (M113, M48, M151, M109, M88, CEV, etc.).
Cavguy66
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 02:42 PM UTC
Can't help posting my modern armor "wish list" for kits other than resin or conversions.

M114/M114A1 Command and Recon Vehicle
Early M48/M48A1
M48A2 (not 1/32 scale like the old Monogram kit)
Early M60
Pre-M113 APCs

Cavguy66
AndersHeintz
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 06:01 PM UTC
Hola!

What kind of modern figures would you like to see? And what would you want them to do i.e. poses, country of origin etc etc.
penpen
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Hauts-de-Seine, France
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 11:03 PM UTC
There are very few figures that could be used for several "local conflicts" : few israeli, no arabic, no african, no cuban, few eastern europeans, very few western europeans...

Thanks to the efforts of several companies like Dream Catcher, there are more israelis... ADV does a few modern french... but I'd like to find much more ! (:-)