History Club
Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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Stalingrad
BillyBishop
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Ontario, Canada
Member Since: March 20, 2002
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Posted: Friday, August 30, 2002 - 09:11 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I agree, but then we are sane members of a society that frowns upon killing innocent people.

DJ Judge



True and I don't think any of us "sane members of society" would be the leaders either Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union for that matter...


MSW


210cav
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Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 01:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I agree, but then we are sane members of a society that frowns upon killing innocent people.

DJ Judge



True and I don't think any of us "sane members of society" would be the leaders either Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union for that matter...


MSW





MSW--the personal challenge I always encounter in discussing historical events is to place myself in the thinking of the time. Hitler certainly takes personal command of the Russian situation for which he is ill prepared. He over rides common sense and military reasoning. There are any number of reasons for this peculiar intervention. His physical health is one area that effects his decision making ability. His good doctor is feeding him a steady diet of amphetymines. He is suffering from the toxicity of this drug and thus he stays up all night and sleeps all day. His flares of anger can also be traced back to this poisioning. Additionally, not all the general officers on the Russian front are being completely honest with him. For whatever reason, they exaggerate the Russian losses and under estimate their task. Charles DeGaulle visited Stalingrad years after the war and remarked that "it is amazing how far they got." Someone asked him "you mean the Russians?" And he responded "no, the Germans." It truly is amazing they got that far and stayed as long as they did. Probably could have done much better with a more responsive government behind them. Fortunately, they did not possess that type of enlightened leadership.
DJ
sgtreef
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Member Since: March 01, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 11:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text


MSW--the personal challenge I always encounter in discussing historical events is to place myself in the thinking of the time. Hitler certainly takes personal command of the Russian situation for which he is ill prepared. He over rides common sense and military reasoning. There are any number of reasons for this peculiar intervention. His physical health is one area that effects his decision making ability. His good doctor is feeding him a steady diet of amphetymines. He is suffering from the toxicity of this drug and thus he stays up all night and sleeps all day. His flares of anger can also be traced back to this poisioning. Additionally, not all the general officers on the Russian front are being completely honest with him. For whatever reason, they exaggerate the Russian losses and under estimate their task. Charles DeGaulle visited Stalingrad years after the war and remarked that "it is amazing how far they got." Someone asked him "you mean the Russians?" And he responded "no, the Germans." It truly is amazing they got that far and stayed as long as they did. Probably could have done much better with a more responsive government behind them. Fortunately, they did not possess that type of enlightened leadership.
DJ



Have to agree should of let the field commanders run the war and shut up. Would of been better off as they said at the beging to pull back from Moscow and regroup but no drive on first loss should of taught them a lesson but no next year the same thing but victories were their. So why do you think they lost really cause of Hlitlers leadership or lack of supply line or just to much of a country to beat for one nation?
210cav
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Virginia, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 02, 2002 - 06:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


MSW--the personal challenge I always encounter in discussing historical events is to place myself in the thinking of the time. Hitler certainly takes personal command of the Russian situation for which he is ill prepared. He over rides common sense and military reasoning. There are any number of reasons for this peculiar intervention. His physical health is one area that effects his decision making ability. His good doctor is feeding him a steady diet of amphetymines. He is suffering from the toxicity of this drug and thus he stays up all night and sleeps all day. His flares of anger can also be traced back to this poisioning. Additionally, not all the general officers on the Russian front are being completely honest with him. For whatever reason, they exaggerate the Russian losses and under estimate their task. Charles DeGaulle visited Stalingrad years after the war and remarked that "it is amazing how far they got." Someone asked him "you mean the Russians?" And he responded "no, the Germans." It truly is amazing they got that far and stayed as long as they did. Probably could have done much better with a more responsive government behind them. Fortunately, they did not possess that type of enlightened leadership.
DJ



Have to agree should of let the field commanders run the war and shut up. Would of been better off as they said at the beging to pull back from Moscow and regroup but no drive on first loss should of taught them a lesson but no next year the same thing but victories were their. So why do you think they lost really cause of Hlitlers leadership or lack of supply line or just to much of a country to beat for one nation?



Jeff---in a nutshell, "Imperial over reach" caused the Germans to lose in Russia. They blundered into a country without limits with limited resources. They failed to establish a strategic goal (take Moscow, take the Ukraine, take the Black Sea ports?). Why did they go into Russia? Hitler supplied the response in "Mein Kampf." He wanted to destroy communism/the bolsheviks. He considered them an extension of Juadism. Treating his enemy with contempt, he gambled, treated the population like dirt, burnt and killed. You can not win hearts and minds with that philosophy. A reasonable approach would have been to seize certain key assets, form a defense arrangement, and negotiate a settlement. Nutty people do nutty things.
DJ