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Dioramas: Before Building
Ideas, concepts, and researching your next diorama.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Which comes first,...
G-man69
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Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 03:43 AM UTC
Hi Erwin,

I concur with you, I've already cut it off and have found some alternative thread, !

Funny how a photograph can show something up that isn't so obvious with the Mk I eyeball, !

Cheers, ,

G
strongarden
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Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 06:17 AM UTC
Great start Gareth.
I've learned so much by reading thru the pgs and the last fotos of the kit's progress compliments the depth of information shared by those commenting here.

Looking frwd to how everything comes together!
Keep it rollin' man!

Cheers
Dave
G-man69
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Posted: Friday, October 04, 2019 - 10:06 PM UTC
Hi Dave,

I have to say I agree with you, in here every day is a school day, there are so many knowledgeable folk in here who are more than willing to share both their modelling know-how, and their subject knowledge...and grateful I am to benefit from both, .

I hope you continue to follow and enjoy the build, .

Cheers, ,

G
cheyenne
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 12:16 AM UTC
Nice build Gareth , looks great . I don't think the rope looks to big , I think the eye is tricked because it only has two strands . Try something like 300 ohm stranded wire , many small wires twisted together . Looks more like rope in 1/35 and easier to position .
G-man69
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 04:03 AM UTC
Hi Cheyenne,

Thanks for the comments on the rope, you and Erwin are right though, irrespective of whether it's a trick of the eye or not, . I have therefore cut the offending two-strand 'rope' off and used a thinner, three-strand material.

I've had to move a few items around, but it's a tad better...I hope, ...(see images below).









As you might have noticed, I've also added some netting along the gun barrel.

Cheers, ,

G
BootsDMS
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 04:50 AM UTC
Gareth,

Good progress; however, needless to say, and not just in the interests of pedantry, note that the Small Packs, which you depict on the glacis of the Firefly, will need to be secured. These are part of the Crews' personal equipment, and will contain a set of prescribed items. I suspect they would normally be stowed either within the tank or the rear turret stowage bin. Whilst constructed of fairly stout webbing, they are not waterproof. Even if configured with the "L" straps to facilitate their carriage (by a soldier as part of the personal equipment set-up) the straps do not lend themselves readily to secure stowage on the glacis.

In other words, you will need to depict something holding them in place.

I must stress again, I am no WW2 expert, and if you have documentary evidence to the contrary, then crack on, but if I was a crewman, the last thing I would want is for my Small Pack, containing spare socks, washing & shaving kit, rations, writing kit perhaps, spare shirt etc, to be lashed to the front of my tank where I know it will get soaked and filthy. 'Hope you take my point!

Bear in mind as not many manufacturers include these, there are a set of buckles on the top of the sides of the pack; I can't quite see from your pictures if they're included. If not, a simple addition with a bit of plastic card and etch.

Brian
Golikell
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 08:12 PM UTC
I always try to relate a scale item to a real life one. If a rope is say 2mm, then the real one is 7cm. Would it be possible to handle this?
That is how I try to think.
Dioramartin
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Posted: Saturday, October 05, 2019 - 11:35 PM UTC
I had the same problem finding the “right” rope a while ago, I found some thin enough but with enough strands in the shipping accessories section of a hobby store i.e. rigging. As Erwin says scale it, from memory the stuff they used on tanks was often more like cord than rope, no thicker than a little finger. (P.S. Great netting but if it’s all stuck down with PVA already painting the turret’ll be um interesting…?)
jrutman
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 02:58 AM UTC
For what it's worth I always use metal wire of various thicknesses to depict string or rope because real string doesn't have the right scale look.
If you are dead set on using real string,there is a lot of kinds that are used in model ship building.
J
G-man69
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 10:37 PM UTC
Hi Brian,

I do take your point...always do as your input has always been invaluable.

Scanning through a number of images I found only one that had what looked like a backpack stowed on the glacis. But it wasn't a great angle, and it might have easily been something else with straps, so I have removed them from the model...easiest route, !

Regards,

G
G-man69
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 10:39 PM UTC
Hi Erwin,

When it comes to rope and stuff, i tend to look at how it scales to the hands of a 1/35th scale figure, then try to size it up to my own hands...if that makes sense, .

Cheers, ,

G
G-man69
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 10:58 PM UTC
Hi Tim,

You're right about finding scale rope/cord, I will look for something thinner for future builds.

As to the netting on the unpainted turret, I did a similar process on my Conqueror build and it seemed to work out okay (see 'before and after' images below).





Admittedly the turret of the Conqueror was huge compared to that of the Firefly, so it might be more difficult to get the right appearance, ...but sometimes our hobby is a try something and see/trial and error thing, .

The 'netting' I used on the Conqueror wasn't completely satisfactory, it was bandage, but the weave wasn't quite right, but for this build i have found a material that has a more 'open' mesh that, in my eyes, looks better, .

Cheers, ,

G
G-man69
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Posted: Sunday, October 06, 2019 - 11:02 PM UTC
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for sharing your 'wire' idea, not something I'd thought of, .

Is it easy to replicate knots with 'wire' cord/rope?

Cheers, ,

G
Golikell
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 12:22 AM UTC
That is another way of looking at it... Still the scaling thing puts things more in perspective
BootsDMS
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Posted: Monday, October 07, 2019 - 06:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Brian,

I do take your point...always do as your input has always been invaluable.

Scanning through a number of images I found only one that had what looked like a backpack stowed on the glacis. But it wasn't a great angle, and it might have easily been something else with straps, so I have removed them from the model...easiest route, !

Regards,

G



Now I just feel guilty!

I suppose one might find such packs attached to the outside but I'm sure they'd be wrapped up tightly in a groundsheet or tarpaulin.

As to finding a suitable material for rope or other lashings, consider fuse wire, or very fine lead wire - available in fishing tackle shops; don't worry about an actual knot, just the suggestion of a few crimped pieces (of lead wire) will give the effect you require.

I've even used old-fashioned stretched sprue to give the effect of taut cord - such as we used in securing the camouflage nets to our Land Rover canopies back in the day; I recall we eventually managed to get out of the Quartermaster cord something akin to washing-line thickness. Of course, washing lines these days are plastic but back then the cord-type were still available, and that is what we used. In 1:35th you would hardly discern any "rope" appearance whatsoever.

Keep at it.

Brian
G-man69
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 01:19 AM UTC
Hi Brian,

No need to feel guilty, sometimes ideas work, sometimes they don't, it's just part and parcel of the hobby, .

Thanks for the comments on fuse wire and knots...all good information, thanks.

Regards,

G
G-man69
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 02:12 AM UTC
Hi all,

In between the sunny spells I have managed to do a small amount of work on the Sherman Firefly, and have just started to dress the turret netting with ‘hessian scrim’, (see images below).





I have also had a further attempt at forming the groundsheet/rain cape on my guinea pig figure, , (see images below).







I will probably end up not using the figure as I think he looks a tad too bulky, he’s likely to end up a bit of a mess, . But it’s useful for me to get the look right before I start ‘dressing’ other figures.

Still surprised how difficult it is to find actual ‘in the field’ images of the cape being worn, but I did find the image below which gives me a feel for the length of the cape...it doesn't look that long really, especially if worn over packs and pouches.



As always, please feel free to comment, .

Cheers, ,

G
Golikell
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Posted: Tuesday, October 08, 2019 - 07:52 PM UTC
Nice twist, to use camouflage netting instead of rope
But... It looks as if both the Brits and the Yanks used only interwoven hessian on their netting:

The TM on camouflage:
https://archive.org/details/Fm5-20b/page/n45
How the netting was made:

G-man69
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 05:13 AM UTC
Hi all,

I really wasn't happy with the netting and hessian strips on the turret of the firefly. Think I'd overdone the amount of net, and I didn't like the way the hessian...2mm Tamiya masking tape strips...looked, they didn't seem to hang naturally...IMHO, .

So I removed the strips of tape, soaked off the net and started all over again, .

I applied a single thickness of netting and reverted to cut strips of paper soaked in white glue to represent the hessian strip (see images below compared to those in previous posts).









Personally, I think it drapes better, it's thinner and less rigid...least that's my opinion, ...whether it's realistic is another matter, .

Cheers, ,

G
Golikell
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Posted: Sunday, October 13, 2019 - 08:42 PM UTC
I remain with my previous standing, that I think this type of camouflage was not used, unless I can be proven wrong ofcourse
G-man69
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 01:13 AM UTC
Hi Erwin,

My apologies, I had meant to respond to your previous comments regarding said camouflage netting with hessian strips.

Firstly, I am no expert on this sort of thing, certainly not enough to argue the case in a debate, however, I did find the following images, both from the same book, and the one forming the front cover.





I know images in books can sometimes be a tad blurred, but the two above do seem to suggest a similar type of camouflage.

Secondly, I found the following image in a book related to modelling British/Commonwealth Shermans.



I'm not saying that the model company is right, they might have made the same mistake as me, but at least i'm in good company if I have made a mistake, .

There are also a good few number of photographs showing Cromwells with that sort of camouflage, so it's not inconceivable that Sherman crews purloined some, .

At the end of the day I may still be wrong accuracy-wise, in which case I plead artistic license, .

Cheers, ,

G
Golikell
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 02:13 AM UTC
Okay... I give in
G-man69
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 03:30 AM UTC
Hi Erwin,

I might still be wrong, it has often been the case, .

Cheers, ,

G
Golikell
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Posted: Monday, October 14, 2019 - 04:37 AM UTC
The pictures look genuine enough. I learned again something today This time you are right imho
G-man69
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Posted: Thursday, October 17, 2019 - 10:51 PM UTC
Hi all,

Firstly, over the last few days I have managed a tad more progress on the Cromwell (see images below). I'm leaving off many of the smaller, more fragile pieces until i get near the end of the build...with my clumsy fingers i'll be breaking bits off, .









Yesterday I managed to give the Sherman Firefly an undercoat (see images below).























I like it when things are undercoated, it manages to homogonise all the disparate elements, . It also shows up any 'poor' bits...sometimes too many for comfort in my case, .

Feel free to comment or add advise, .

Cheers, .

G