login   |    register
Buy, Sell or Trade: Selling: Armor
Armor kits for sale by poster.
FS: SdKfz10t/5 & BEEP WC51, Sherman question
mdland58
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: December 08, 2018
entire network: 44 Posts
KitMaker Network: 43 Posts
Posted: Sunday, February 17, 2019 - 01:34 PM UTC
Greetings. I have a DML kit#6677 (SdKfz10/5 with 20mm gun) and an AFV Club BEEP WC51 for sale for $62.00 plus freight from 61953.
I also have a track question for all you Sherman experts out there. I work primarily on German and Soviet WWII armor and softskins, but recently began finishing out four different Sherman's long in-process. I usually use Bronco LTL workable sets for the tracks, but I recently pulled a set of T51 Dragon Styrene tracks from DML's M4 Sherman kit 6511 to just see how they might look and fit in comparison with Broncos T51 LTLs. Is it me, or are the DML DS T51 tracks a bit short? I wrapped them around, but even realizing that continuous tracks must be pulled tight because they have radial concerns, it just looked like they were four or five links short of a six-pack. I thought all the early Sherman hull and suspension units were about the same length (M4, M4A1, M4A2, M4A3). I assumed maybe lengths changed a bit on the late war variants, but I thought all early variants had tracks of the same general length. Am I in error with this line of reasoning? If not, why are the DML DS T51 tracks short?
Concerning the kits, if interested, you can reach me here or at:
mpinson58@yahoo.com

Thanks to anyone who replies to my post.
Regards,
Mark
mpinson58@yahoo.com
novaee04
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Member Since: November 03, 2005
entire network: 109 Posts
KitMaker Network: 103 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 18, 2019 - 06:19 AM UTC
Are you working on an M4A4? The A4 had increased length vs. the other version due to the size of the multibank engine it used. Single length tracks meant for the other verisons would be too short on an A4. The easiest way to see is compare the space between the wheels of the first and second or second and third boagie pairs. An A4 will have a larger space than the other types. Search google for images showing the difference.
barkingdigger
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
ARMORAMA
#013
Visit this Community
England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Member Since: June 20, 2008
entire network: 3,375 Posts
KitMaker Network: 493 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 18, 2019 - 09:47 AM UTC
The M4, M4A1, M4A2, M4A3 VVSS all used 79 links, except the M4A4 that used 83 links.
mdland58
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: December 08, 2018
entire network: 44 Posts
KitMaker Network: 43 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 18, 2019 - 12:36 PM UTC
Greetings and thanks for the two responses. Yes, I was aware of the longer hull on the M4A4 because of the engines. I had listed in my post that I assumed the M4,M4A1,M4A2,M4A3 all had similar hulls. I did not mention the M4A4 because I was aware it was longer. The DS tracks I had came from an M4 version, so I was curious why they did not seem to fit well on M4A1, M4A2, M4A3. However, it brings up yet a new question. Was the British Firefly version based on the early hull (M4,M4A1,M4A2,M4A3), or was it longer and based on the longer M4A4 hull, which was not used by the US Army. Was the longer M4A4 hull used as the basis for the Firefly, or was the Firefly the shorter, early version hull. Yet another twist. Like I said, I have some Sherman reference books, but I am NOT a Sherman expert. Hence, the questions might seem mundane or redundant. Please excuse my ignorance.
nsjohn
Visit this Community
Scotland, United Kingdom
Member Since: July 26, 2018
entire network: 94 Posts
KitMaker Network: 3 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 18, 2019 - 01:00 PM UTC
Fireflys were based on Sherman V or Sherman 1. Sherman V was the M4A4 and Sherman 1 was the M4. When convertd they had a "c" added, hence Sherman Vc was a Firefly based on the M4A4.
mdland58
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: December 08, 2018
entire network: 44 Posts
KitMaker Network: 43 Posts
Posted: Monday, February 18, 2019 - 03:47 PM UTC
Greetings and many thanks. I had always wondered about the Firefly issue that you clarified. I knew the US military had rejected the M4A4 because of the engine differences (Hunnicut laid this out clearly). Since the M4A4 became an "export only" unit, I guess it would make perfect sense that the British would end up getting these supplied for their Firefly conversions. The first tank I tried the T51 DML DS tracks on was actually a Vc Firefly, so now it being short makes perfect sense. Mr. CROMWELL said M4, M4A1, M4A2, M4A3 used 79 links. M4A4 and, hence, Firefly variants would have used 84, as he said. So, in fact, the tracks on the one tank I tried WOULD have been exactly 5 links short-- I just used the wrong T51 DML DS track on the wrong tank. I guess I just need to stick with the Bronco LTL workable.
Mystery solved. I thank all you fine gentlemen for your patience and your help. Please forgive my obvious lack of experience and knowledge of Sherman variants.