login   |    register
Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Russian Armor Experts Help!
Ringleheim
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: September 04, 2009
entire network: 147 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 11:36 AM UTC
I have been reading reviews of Meng's 1/35 T-72 kits, and one mentioned that the gun barrel angle is basically pre-determined by Meng. The parts are designed to hike the barrel up at an angle and it doesn't move.

Is this correct for all of the Meng T-72 kits? Did anyone figure out a work-around?

Also, how do the Trumpeter T-72 kits stack up against the Meng T-72 kits?

Thanks!
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Member Since: March 06, 2010
entire network: 2,901 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 03:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I have been reading reviews of Meng's 1/35 T-72 kits, and one mentioned that the gun barrel angle is basically pre-determined by Meng. The parts are designed to hike the barrel up at an angle and it doesn't move.

Is this correct for all of the Meng T-72 kits? Did anyone figure out a work-around?

Also, how do the Trumpeter T-72 kits stack up against the Meng T-72 kits?

Thanks!



I have both Trumpeter and Meng T-72 / T-90x kits. Both makers produce great and very complex, parts-rich kits full of detail. The quality of molding appears quite comparable. There are a few notable differences: For those T-72 and T-90 featuring cast turrets with the "Nadboi" anti-radiation shielding, Trumpeter elected to mold that padding on the turret shell - and have the builder add on some 218 or so tiny PE discs for the fasteners. Meng provides the "Nadboi" as applique pieces you add onto the turret - which pieces come with the fasteners molded on. MUCH easier, and, specially when mostly buried under turret junk and ERA blocks, largely invisible, anyway.

There are some differences in assembly of the hulls - particularly of the glacis and near portions. I don't think one kit-brand is better then the other in assembly.

Each brand gets high marks overall for detail, and each has a few small gaffs and softness here and there. Oh, and Trumpeter provides some position options for the main gun... and some of the Trumpy kits have soft plastic mantel-cover bits to accommodate different elevations. It's not something I much care about...

I think that Trumpy wins some points in their provision of multiple paint-schemes in color - but there are plenty of photos around to work from in either case, so...

Both maker's kits build up to great-looking tanks - and both will benefit from a few added and refined detail-tweaks.

Just of course my opinions!

Cheers! Bob

PS: The way to go, IMHO, is to try one of each, if money and time permit! Spread your wealth and enjoy the richness of multiple great kit-makers sharing a common general subject!

PPS: I am sure that there is some sort of "work-around" to shift the gun elevation on a Meng kit - likely some surgery and perhaps adding some scratch bits inside. I've never looked into it, as it's never really called me, but... search Armorama for "Meng T-72 kits" and related subjects.
avenue
Visit this Community
Philippines
Member Since: May 25, 2013
entire network: 527 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 07:21 PM UTC
do anyone know what's the different between trumpeter T-72B3 item no. 09508 and T-72B3 (2016)item no. 09561?
externally, they appear same with some minor different?
Ringleheim
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: September 04, 2009
entire network: 147 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 11:33 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I have been reading reviews of Meng's 1/35 T-72 kits, and one mentioned that the gun barrel angle is basically pre-determined by Meng. The parts are designed to hike the barrel up at an angle and it doesn't move.

Is this correct for all of the Meng T-72 kits? Did anyone figure out a work-around?

Also, how do the Trumpeter T-72 kits stack up against the Meng T-72 kits?

Thanks!



I have both Trumpeter and Meng T-72 / T-90x kits. Both makers produce great and very complex, parts-rich kits full of detail. The quality of molding appears quite comparable. There are a few notable differences: For those T-72 and T-90 featuring cast turrets with the "Nadboi" anti-radiation shielding, Trumpeter elected to mold that padding on the turret shell - and have the builder add on some 218 or so tiny PE discs for the fasteners. Meng provides the "Nadboi" as applique pieces you add onto the turret - which pieces come with the fasteners molded on. MUCH easier, and, specially when mostly buried under turret junk and ERA blocks, largely invisible, anyway.

There are some differences in assembly of the hulls - particularly of the glacis and near portions. I don't think one kit-brand is better then the other in assembly.

Each brand gets high marks overall for detail, and each has a few small gaffs and softness here and there. Oh, and Trumpeter provides some position options for the main gun... and some of the Trumpy kits have soft plastic mantel-cover bits to accommodate different elevations. It's not something I much care about...

I think that Trumpy wins some points in their provision of multiple paint-schemes in color - but there are plenty of photos around to work from in either case, so...

Both maker's kits build up to great-looking tanks - and both will benefit from a few added and refined detail-tweaks.

Just of course my opinions!

Cheers! Bob

PS: The way to go, IMHO, is to try one of each, if money and time permit! Spread your wealth and enjoy the richness of multiple great kit-makers sharing a common general subject!

PPS: I am sure that there is some sort of "work-around" to shift the gun elevation on a Meng kit - likely some surgery and perhaps adding some scratch bits inside. I've never looked into it, as it's never really called me, but... search Armorama for "Meng T-72 kits" and related subjects.



Thanks for the detailed comments. I guess the hiked up barrel angle on the Meng kits doesn't bother you, but for me I think it's a deal breaker as it looks rather odd. I've never heard of a model tank without barrel adjustment. This is a strange path for Meng to have gone down.

Glad to hear both kits are of high quality. I appreciate you help here.
Ringleheim
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: September 04, 2009
entire network: 147 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 11:35 PM UTC

Quoted Text

do anyone know what's the different between trumpeter T-72B3 item no. 09508 and T-72B3 (2016)item no. 09561?
externally, they appear same with some minor different?



Looks like the latter boxing is the "mod. 2016" version of the tank, whatever that means; the kit is a re-boxing but with some added parts. not sure what those are.
iguanac
Visit this Community
Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro
Member Since: September 06, 2007
entire network: 113 Posts
KitMaker Network: 8 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 12:50 AM UTC
Withouth proper rewiews, the two Trumpeter kits differentiate in terms of sideskirts, the newer one has some grills in the back of the tank. I guess that there are some more alternations, but this is a visible one from the box cover.
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/trumpeter-09508-t-72b3-mbt--1086865
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/trumpeter-09561-t-72b3-mbt-mod-2016--1112494
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Member Since: March 06, 2010
entire network: 2,901 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 04:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Withouth proper rewiews, the two Trumpeter kits differentiate in terms of sideskirts, the newer one has some grills in the back of the tank. I guess that there are some more alternations, but this is a visible one from the box cover.
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/trumpeter-09508-t-72b3-mbt--1086865
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/trumpeter-09561-t-72b3-mbt-mod-2016--1112494



The "recent production" version (kitted as "2016") features addition of the slat armor elements on the rear quarter and back end. This is probably the largest difference between the 2016 mod and the prior kit B3 kit. For some (me! ), this last update - aimed at bringing -B3 closer to the T-90MS 2015+ equipment standard, is a fair reason to go the 2016 kit - that, and the slat armor adds a bit of interest and distinction to the T-72.. series. For those of us who want to build only a couple of T-72 versions and perhaps hoping to capture larger-scale changes in the vehicle, the 2016 kit is a pretty salient point in -72 development and kitting when looking back over the (Trumpeter) series of T-72 kits - at least visually-speaking! Just my opinion, of course!

Bob

PS: Having just acquired the B1 w/ the early ERA boxes / blocks to "capture" that early ERA configuration on T-72, the 2016 mod kit calls me, as it brings in the current Relikt ERA configuration plus the passive slat armor detail of the most-modern version of -72 in current service in a pretty different-looking tank. The 2016 will be my next T-72 purchase, I think!
Wingtsun
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Member Since: July 16, 2006
entire network: 291 Posts
KitMaker Network: 34 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 06:15 PM UTC
This web store has scans of sprues, the instructions, painting and marking guide.

Trumpeter's T-72B3 Model 2016

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10538065

Meng's T-72B3

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10391090

Trumpeter's T-72B3
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10549089


Trumpeter's T-72B3M

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10471782




Wingtsun
Visit this Community
British Columbia, Canada
Member Since: July 16, 2006
entire network: 291 Posts
KitMaker Network: 34 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 06:26 PM UTC

Quoted Text

do anyone know what's the different between trumpeter T-72B3 item no. 09508 and T-72B3 (2016)item no. 09561?
externally, they appear same with some minor different?



The Model 2016 has the following differences that I can see
New side skirts and skirt armor which covers the first 2/3 of the hull (slats cover the rest of the 1/3 at the ends )
Slat armor at the back of the hull and the back of the turret
Blocks of ERA armor protecting the rear left/right quarters of the turrets
A brick of ERA armor on the front left hand side of the turret next to the main gun. On the plain T-72B3, the ERA brick is missing.
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Member Since: March 06, 2010
entire network: 2,901 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 06:30 PM UTC
[quote]
Quoted Text


Quoted Text



Thanks!


PPS: I am sure that there is some sort of "work-around" to shift the gun elevation on a Meng kit - likely some surgery and perhaps adding some scratch bits inside. I've never looked into it, as it's never really called me, but... search Armorama for "Meng T-72 kits" and related subjects.



Thanks for the detailed comments. I guess the hiked up barrel angle on the Meng kits doesn't bother you, but for me I think it's a deal breaker as it looks rather odd. I've never heard of a model tank without barrel adjustment. This is a strange path for Meng to have gone down.

Glad to hear both kits are of high quality. I appreciate you help here.



Ringleheim: If I understand right some of the commentary I've come across on the Meng kit - it comes with what I believe to be a soft vinyl gun-mantlet - which appears to be flexible and allow the gun to be moved up and down over a modest range to set elevations. Nowhere have I seen anything saying that the gun installs into the turret at exactly one elevation and becomes a rigid fixture thereat. So, if a fixed "hiked gun-barrel" is a deal- breaker, you may wish to reconsider, as I think that the Meng kit may well offer you some option on that.

Cheers! Bob

PS: Regarding "odd" gun-barrel elevations... Actually, short of firing nearly point-blank at a near target at the same level as the shooting tank, a tank engaging a moderate-to-more-distant target would have that barrel elevated to some degree. And typically, when moving on roads or across fields, tank guns, specially on these lower Russian tanks, are elevated - helps to keep the long barrel from "digging in" when bouncing along! So models depicting both tanks in lager or depot and in the field may be more natural if the barrel is up a bit, as versus being horizontal. Just an observation!
bison126
Visit this Community
Correze, France
Member Since: June 10, 2004
entire network: 5,013 Posts
KitMaker Network: 89 Posts
Posted: Friday, February 01, 2019 - 08:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I've never heard of a model tank without barrel adjustment. This is a strange path for Meng to have gone down.



In fact a lot of tank models come with a fixed barrel. This is especially ture for Russian tank with their canvas mantlet cover which makes a moveable gun difficult to reproduce in styrene.

Olivier
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Member Since: March 06, 2010
entire network: 2,901 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Saturday, February 02, 2019 - 05:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I've never heard of a model tank without barrel adjustment. This is a strange path for Meng to have gone down.



In fact a lot of tank models come with a fixed barrel. This is especially ture for Russian tank with their canvas mantlet cover which makes a moveable gun difficult to reproduce in styrene.

Olivier



Good point, O.

Thinking about it a bit, I wouldn't want to move the barrel once that "canvas" mantlet had been painted - regardless of what that mantlet was made of... Moving the barrel would potentially crack the paint off.

I just checked my Trumpeter T-72B/B1 kit (kit 05599) - the barrel is FIXED with assembly. The kit offers a choice of 2 mantlets with different elevations.

Note that many of the modern Russians have loads of ERA and sight stuff articulated with the main gun movement. This collection of moving parts cannot readily be made movable in a model kit. Thus, many modern Russian tank kits come with fixed barrels owing to reality.

So, Ringleheim, you may well have little choice or option regarding finding kits with movable barrels for most moderns...

Cheers! Bob
Ringleheim
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: September 04, 2009
entire network: 147 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 05:58 AM UTC
I realize I'm reviving an older thread, but I finally ordered my T-72.

I took everyone's comments carefully into consideration and decided on the Meng T-72B1, Kit TS-033.

Can anyone recommend a good "Russian Green" for the kit? I have a ton of Tamiya paints so something in their range would work, but I am also willing to buy something special for the kit.

Just curious what the "go to" modern Russian green is for some modelers.

Thanks.
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Member Since: March 06, 2010
entire network: 2,901 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 06:14 AM UTC
Ringle...:

Timely to ask about Russian Green...!

There have been 2 recent threads about Russian paint colors over on the Russian-Soviet forum. Take a look. These have plenty of discussion and could offer you a lot of possibilities to work from!

I'm right in the midst of both your question and the discussions, as I am right now working on a couple of "Big Russian" tank projects - a Trumpy T-64A (which will probably get some "monochrome" "Russian Green" sort of scheme - I'll probably use either the Vallejo Model Color "Russian Green" 70.894, or maybe some Testor's Russian Green enamel... either of which will be modified a bit with some lighter color), and Takom's T-55AMV, which may start out with some Russian Green base-coat before a camo job... Don't yet have any paint/color fingered for that base-coat.

So go look into those threads and see if you gleen any useful intelligence from them!

Cheers! Bob
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
entire network: 4,042 Posts
KitMaker Network: 20 Posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 06:33 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Ringle...:

Timely to ask about Russian Green...!

There have been 2 recent threads about Russian paint colors over on the Russian-Soviet forum. Take a look. These have plenty of discussion and could offer you a lot of possibilities to work from!

I'm right in the midst of both your question and the discussions, as I am right now working on a couple of "Big Russian" tank projects - a Trumpy T-64A (which will probably get some "monochrome" "Russian Green" sort of scheme - I'll probably use either the Vallejo Model Color "Russian Green" 70.894, or maybe some Testor's Russian Green enamel... either of which will be modified a bit with some lighter color), and Takom's T-55AMV, which may start out with some Russian Green base-coat before a camo job... Don't yet have any paint/color fingered for that base-coat.

So go look into those threads and see if you gleen any useful intelligence from them!

Cheers! Bob



Hi Ringleheim, Bob, and Everyone Else!

To open up another "can of worms", "color" is perceived differently by every human being on earth, even among us modelers!

If it were me, I'd fly with the TESTORS Model Master II Enamel "Russian Green"- But only because I STILL use enamels. I would "doctor it up a little bit", but I very rarely use anything "straight-out-of-the-bottle", anyway...

My own advice- Pick a "Russian Green" that you like and run with it. By the time you get done with all of your weathering processes, your base-color is going to look completely different, anyway...

Have Fun!
panzerbob01
Visit this Community
Louisiana, United States
Member Since: March 06, 2010
entire network: 2,901 Posts
KitMaker Network: 169 Posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 01:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ringle...:

Timely to ask about Russian Green...!

There have been 2 recent threads about Russian paint colors over on the Russian-Soviet forum. Take a look. These have plenty of discussion and could offer you a lot of possibilities to work from!

I'm right in the midst of both your question and the discussions, as I am right now working on a couple of "Big Russian" tank projects - a Trumpy T-64A (which will probably get some "monochrome" "Russian Green" sort of scheme - I'll probably use either the Vallejo Model Color "Russian Green" 70.894, or maybe some Testor's Russian Green enamel... either of which will be modified a bit with some lighter color), and Takom's T-55AMV, which may start out with some Russian Green base-coat before a camo job... Don't yet have any paint/color fingered for that base-coat.

So go look into those threads and see if you gleen any useful intelligence from them!

Cheers! Bob



Hi Ringleheim, Bob, and Everyone Else!

To open up another "can of worms", "color" is perceived differently by every human being on earth, even among us modelers!

If it were me, I'd fly with the TESTORS Model Master II Enamel "Russian Green"- But only because I STILL use enamels. I would "doctor it up a little bit", but I very rarely use anything "straight-out-of-the-bottle", anyway...

My own advice- Pick a "Russian Green" that you like and run with it. By the time you get done with all of your weathering processes, your base-color is going to look completely different, anyway...

Have Fun!



Dennis; 1) You are paraphrasing what I posted in those mentioned threads back on 27 Apr... about people do see / perceive colors differently. And about mixing colors to match what you want or like...

2) YOU actually posted in those threads back when, too! Maybe let the guy go read the stuff therein?

Bob :-)
alanmac
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: February 25, 2007
entire network: 2,868 Posts
KitMaker Network: 54 Posts
Posted: Thursday, May 09, 2019 - 07:22 PM UTC
[quote2) YOU actually posted in those threads back when, too! Maybe let the guy go read the stuff therein?

Bob :-)[/quote]

What, and not increase his post count. You should realize that posting on Armorama is his main hobby and pastime in life, no time for actual modeling or anything else it would seem

If as someone suggested you were to hit the "hide user" button then probably two thirds of the posts on the site would disappear
M4A1Sherman
Visit this Community
New York, United States
Member Since: May 02, 2013
entire network: 4,042 Posts
KitMaker Network: 20 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 12:05 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Ringle...:

Timely to ask about Russian Green...!

There have been 2 recent threads about Russian paint colors over on the Russian-Soviet forum. Take a look. These have plenty of discussion and could offer you a lot of possibilities to work from!

I'm right in the midst of both your question and the discussions, as I am right now working on a couple of "Big Russian" tank projects - a Trumpy T-64A (which will probably get some "monochrome" "Russian Green" sort of scheme - I'll probably use either the Vallejo Model Color "Russian Green" 70.894, or maybe some Testor's Russian Green enamel... either of which will be modified a bit with some lighter color), and Takom's T-55AMV, which may start out with some Russian Green base-coat before a camo job... Don't yet have any paint/color fingered for that base-coat.

So go look into those threads and see if you gleen any useful intelligence from them!

Cheers! Bob



Hi Ringleheim, Bob, and Everyone Else!

To open up another "can of worms", "color" is perceived differently by every human being on earth, even among us modelers!

If it were me, I'd fly with the TESTORS Model Master II Enamel "Russian Green"- But only because I STILL use enamels. I would "doctor it up a little bit", but I very rarely use anything "straight-out-of-the-bottle", anyway...

My own advice- Pick a "Russian Green" that you like and run with it. By the time you get done with all of your weathering processes, your base-color is going to look completely different, anyway...

Have Fun!



Dennis; 1) You are paraphrasing what I posted in those mentioned threads back on 27 Apr... about people do see / perceive colors differently. And about mixing colors to match what you want or like...

2) YOU actually posted in those threads back when, too! Maybe let the guy go read the stuff therein?

Bob :-)



Yes, I realize you said that back on April 27, but I've said that for quite a few years, myself- Not necessarily HERE on ARMORAMA. Sure, "LET the guy go read the stuff therein"... It makes PERFECT SENSE!
RLlockie
Visit this Community
United Kingdom
Member Since: September 06, 2013
entire network: 933 Posts
KitMaker Network: 116 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 06:26 AM UTC
Worked for me.....