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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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lvtp-7 family
AmTrac1833
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 12:40 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Are there significant differences between these mechanisms in the early and late (LVTP-7 and AAVP-7)? I can't find a photo of it LVTP-7 on top. Whether they had anti-skid on top and the hatches of the landing?
In addition, I found an interesting fact - cargo hatch support posts on early LVTP-7 had no inner wall and had a П-shaped appearance. In addition, the photo shows that the upper hatches of the landing suspended on 5 loops not 3 as done on the model.




Awesome catch on the cargo hatch posts!!! Iíll need to save that information for my future builds.
As far as anti-skid on the LVT7 I cannot say with any authority as those were before my time. In the LVT7 Technical Manuals, they look very slick/shiny as if there is no anti-skid in place. The cargo hatches also look the same as those on a 7A1 aside from the cargo hatch locks. I know the kitís interior is incorrect for an LVT7.
All my time was on the 7A1 and 7A1 RAM/RS with a little time on the EFV and ACV. Speaking of which, that ZBD looks interesting, wish someone would kit an EFV.

C7A1 we unloaded from the MPF vessel MV Dewayne T Williams and later, at camp during Exercise Freedom Banner / Cobra Gold 2002 in Thailand.



Scanned from a slide I acquired, a very dirty LVTC7 with P7 in chase.


Couple shots of the EFV, that thing outran us on the water - and we were full throttle in a 10-meter RIB. Camp Pendleton CA.


fhvn4d
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Posted: Friday, December 14, 2018 - 02:09 PM UTC
The 33 foot RIB couldnt keep up !?????? What was pushing it!?
ivan_a
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 12:29 AM UTC
Daniel, I'm glad my search proved useful. Thank you very much for the photos - I saw this photo with loading c7a1 and focused on it in work. Did I understand correctly that this Is your C 7? Unfortunately my model-version with 7 A1 RAM / RS - it significantly narrows the choice of the prototype in an interesting color. thanks for C7 in an early version - there is a thought ever to make it.
ZBD is very interesting, but it is catastrophically little information - especially on the detailing and location of the hose opening of the nose flap. it slowed my work on him.
Returning to our 7a - I continued to search for "ears" and square bar to mount the intake plenum in the open position. and here's what I found:).
early Museum LVTP7 - no ears (can be lost?).

early LVTP7 is in good condition - there are ears! the photo clearly shows their location, circled in red, blue-incomprehensible area.

On the model of the Academy in this place the antenna !
And I'm still busy with mass production-8 square bar and 20 ears:))
ivan_a
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 12:41 AM UTC
EFV never became a production model ?:(
AmTrac1833
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 03:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The 33 foot RIB couldnt keep up !?????? What was pushing it!?



It wasnít leaving us in the dust, just pulling ahead slowly like she had couple knots vantage over the RIB. Could of used couple more seals pushing I guess




Quoted Text

Returning to our 7a - I continued to search for "ears" and square bar to mount the intake plenum in the open position. and here's what I found:).
early Museum LVTP7 - no ears (can be lost?).



I think that early vehicle in the museum is an LVTPX12, the experimental vehicle before accepted for service and re-designated as the LVTP7. Several of the Technical Manuals show the intake plenum without those ears. Initial production P7s may have not had those ears, instead relying on the lifting eye to secure them in the open position. The ears may have been added later in the production and added as modification to earlier vehicles. All the LVTP7 images Iíve looked through have only one of those ears.
Iíll do some hunting through my files, I might have the precise measurements of those bars stashed away somewhere.



Quoted Text

...the photo clearly shows their location, circled in red, blue-incomprehensible area.
On the model of the Academy in this place the antenna !
And I'm still busy with mass production-8 square bar and 20 ears:))



That blue circle is where the receiving antenna was located for the old radio system, prior to SINCGARS in 1995. The hole is still in all the hulls, it is just plugged now.



Quoted Text

EFV never became a production model ?:(



The development turned into a bit of a boondoggle. When issues would arise, there wasnít attempts to solve the problem instead they would patch, band-aid or find work arounds. Plus, the war with emphasis on IEDs took away from focus on amphibious responsibilities/capabilities along with constantly being behind schedule finally caused the cancellation in 2011 or 2012. Unfortunate as the vehicle was a very impressive piece of gear.



Here is one I have on my ďto doĒ list. It is the artistís concept of the LVTPX12.


ivan_a
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 05:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...I think that early vehicle in the museum is an LVTPX12, the experimental vehicle before accepted for service and re-designated as the LVTP7. Several of the Technical Manuals show the intake plenum without those ears. Initial production P7s may have not had those ears, instead relying on the lifting eye to secure them in the open position. The ears may have been added later in the production and added as modification to earlier vehicles. All the LVTP7 images Iíve looked through have only one of those ears.
Iíll do some hunting through my files, I might have the precise measurements of those bars stashed away somewhere.



Thank you for the detailed comment, I come to the same conclusion. If you find in your files the location of the ears on the early version and the length of bars I will be very grateful!


Quoted Text

That blue circle is where the receiving antenna was located for the old radio system, prior to SINCGARS in 1995. The hole is still in all the hulls, it is just plugged now.(



Roger:)

So ears and bars are made.

On version A1 of the ears turned out right and match the photos and diagrams from the manual (thanks, Daniel !!)


But with the length of bars I seem to be wrong. I got them too short. I will do again.


And here is with early LVTP 7 the problem. I have a feeling that either I placed them incorrectly, or I need to add a couple more.

AmTrac1833
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 06:53 AM UTC
I managed to find a picture in my stash that shows the area in question pretty well. I think itís the best I have at the moment. Back of the photo states is taken by Keyston publishing but, does not provide a date or any details.



I also found some notes on the bars and sketched them out real quick. Measurements are in inches because that is what the TM is. Front and rear bars are identical, they have the same part# in the TM. On the intake and exhaust plenums themselves, the distance between the ears is set so the bar can be stowed on those ears.




ivan_a
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Posted: Saturday, December 15, 2018 - 02:27 PM UTC
It's perfect! exactly what I needed.
Daniel - my gratitude has no boundaries!
Photo by Keystone publishing confirmed my thoughts about fixing the bar-1 ear on the intake and exhaust plenums and 4 on the plate between them.
The correct length of the bar on the model is 13 mm (I had 9....), the distance between the ears of hobbyboss on intake and 11 mm - and I have to redo it.
ivan_a
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 01:21 AM UTC
I decided to completely transfer all ears on all models. the result on the photo. I am satisfied with what happened on AAVC7. The proportions and General appearance correspond to the photo.

But as early LVTP 7 - apparent violations of the proportions of the model. Too short exhaust plenums, wrong arrangement of its bracket. To redo, I'm not going - maybe ever will make another one as a base only use Hobbyboss.

Yet - the story continues, the main body LVTP 7 landing hatches cut arm and locks in the open position. Moved the bracket on the right side on a 2 mm forward movement of the Academy gives them the position is wrong.

And with ears and bar's I have to repeat the process 4 more times:).
AmTrac1833
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 03:49 AM UTC
That is some awesome work!

Thank you for catching these details that previously escaped me. I now have to rework couple items on my LVTP7 hybrid.
It is a vehicle we had at the Amphibious Vehicle Test Branch. It was an LVTP7 hull with RAM/RS suspension, bow plane, EAAK and UGWS. A real odd-ball from which I am kit bashing Hobby Bossí LVTP7 and AAVP7A1 RAM/RS kits. This vehicle still exists albeit in a non-functioning and stripped state. It serves as a training aid for embark/debark of AAVs for recruits at Edson Range, Camp Pendleton CA.
I got to help strip and move it to Edson Range. We removed an LVTPX12 that had been filling the role of training aid. We brought that vehicle back to the Test Branch and patched it back together enough to allow her to float. After which she was shipped to Florida (if memory serves correctly) where it was used as a target for some air to surface missile. I managed to pluck the data plate from her before shipping her off to destruction.





LVTPX12 data plate.


Tank1812
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Posted: Sunday, December 16, 2018 - 10:09 AM UTC
Good looking details Ivan.

Like the -5 Danny.
ivan_a
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Posted: Monday, December 17, 2018 - 02:32 AM UTC
Daniel, thank you for the appreciation of my modest works! I'm glad to be able to help.

And gradually I continue - it is necessary to glue 6 ears on each of the 6 vehicles:).

Your work is very good! Very interesting and unusual prototype. If this is the chassis from a LVTP-7 - whether the replacement if he has supports for the upper hatches of the landing? I see on your model that their 2, but what they were on design?
LVTP-5 Is very beautiful, excellent work!
History of LVTPX12 incredibly interesting and sad:(. The experimental machine, the prototype to use as a target (( But the sign - a fabulous trophy!!!

Do you have information about other experimental machines on the P7 chassis - such as self-propelled guns, engineering machines and others? I have a great desire to make them, but the network is catastrophically little information.
here's what I have:


and page from the book Tankograd (AMA no book - photo from the network).


Here is such a modification-as I understand it, made in the army:

This is a very interesting prototype.

And the only photos are very strange cars - i never seen the like.

ivan_a
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 - 03:53 AM UTC
Is perfectionism good or bad?
This is a rhetorical question:)
Аfter a day of reflection, I decided to move the bracket. I sharpened the knife, remembered the skills of my first profession... And already through 2 minutes I have on the table lay neatly cut off detail. More precisely 2 details in 4 minutes:). The process and the result you can see in the photo.


The bracket is not glued yet, it needs to be positioned accurately
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 - 04:15 AM UTC
Talking about prototypes, here's another one : AAV + UT-25-30 unmanned turret :







The pictured turret variant is fitted with a 25mm Bushmaster M242. It can be fitted with a 30mm MK44 Bushmaster II gun as well.

Don't forget the ill-fated AAV Survability Upgrade program





H.P.
ivan_a
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 - 04:30 AM UTC
Thank You, Henri-Pierre. It's an interesting prototype. I thought about it. But I stop play tower and confusing the design of the upper part of the body. Judging by the photo, the tower bed occupies the front third of the landing compartment.
Frenchy
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 - 07:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And the only photos are very strange cars - i never seen the like.




Here's a caption I've found for this picture

"USMC FMC LVTP-7 (AAV-7) 385260 at the Transpo '72 show at Dulles International Airport in June, 1972."

I guess the hull top looks weird because the hatches are half-open...

Other P7-based prototypes :

LVTCX2 command vehicle (with a 20mm gun):



LVTC7 command vehicle (fitted with an auxiliary generator set) :



Another view of the LVTEX3 (which have the same turret as the LVTPX12):




H.P.
AmTrac1833
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Posted: Tuesday, December 18, 2018 - 12:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text


The process and the result you can see in the photo.

The bracket is not glued yet, it needs to be positioned accurately



I have taken notes of your progress, so I can apply those fixes to my build. Excellent work!



Quoted Text

Talking about prototypes, here's another one : AAV + UT-25-30 unmanned turret :

The pictured turret variant is fitted with a 25mm Bushmaster M242. It can be fitted with a 30mm MK44 Bushmaster II gun as well.

Don't forget the ill-fated AAV Survability Upgrade program




I had opportunity to attend demonstration of that turret on range at Camp Pendleton. It was mounted on a 6x6 LAV. Very impressive. I also have the data brochure they handed out for the AAV/Elbit turret somewhere in one of my binders. Unfortunate about the SU because she rode better than a Cadillac!



Quoted Text


I guess the hull top looks weird because the hatches are half-open...




The hatches are in their ďrestingĒ position in that picture. The spring is installed with the hatches at 90į so it springs open or closed when released form either of the locked positions. The springs have a hexagon cross-section and the twist is visible when the hatch is either secured in the open or closed positions. All the kits have the springs molded as round rods. I found the approximate size and replaced the kitís version of the spring, I even made sure to put the twist in it. It will probably go unnoticed, but I know its there.
ivan_a
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 06:37 PM UTC
Good day, colleagues. Thank you for your feedback and especially for the interesting photos of experimental vehicles.


Quoted Text



I had opportunity to attend demonstration of that turret on range at Camp Pendleton. It was mounted on a 6x6 LAV. Very impressive. I also have the data brochure they handed out for the AAV/Elbit turret somewhere in one of my binders. Unfortunate about the SU because she rode better than a Cadillac!



Daniel - information about SU was very interesting! I can't imagine what it would look like in this configuration.


Quoted Text



The hatches are in their ďrestingĒ position in that picture. The spring is installed with the hatches at 90į so it springs open or closed when released form either of the locked positions. The springs have a hexagon cross-section and the twist is visible when the hatch is either secured in the open or closed positions. All the kits have the springs molded as round rods. I found the approximate size and replaced the kitís version of the spring, I even made sure to put the twist in it. It will probably go unnoticed, but I know its there.



Thank you for that explanation. Some pictures made me think about whether the round or hexagonal section were these spring. Now I know. But on my models I'll leave them round:).

And I continue.... A few days I thought about how best to make the mechanism of opening the front grille. In the end, I decided to use some of the original parts, and the rest made of plastic. I cut down round parts with a diameter of 1.8 mm using a punch and made levers from a plastic strip. Lever size 3,5x1,0-1,2 mm.

to Further Polish the edge of the torsion bar and glue the parts as shown in photo. That's just the torsion bar in the process of gluing to the body need to shift about 1 mm to starboard. To ensure that the entire mechanism is on the same line.


Photo of result.


Now I'm a little distracted.... From experimental machines, I was particularly interested in LVTEX-3 in the version of the engineering machine and the fire support machine with a turret from Sheridan. I could not resist and tried on an old turret from Sheridan Tamiya on the body P7. And I think I know what kind of project I'm going to build......


But with this machine, one problem - catastrophically little information.
Tank1812
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 10:22 PM UTC
I think that looks cool with what you have going.

Danny can probably help with some details, if I am not mistaken this is his build years ago. http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/158219.aspx

Little information works both ways. No one can prove you wrong on the details either. In a similar vane while talking about tuna boats, one day hope to have a LVTAA-X1, a LVTP-5 with the mounted M42 Duster 40mm guns.
AmTrac1833
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 02:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Now I'm a little distracted.... From experimental machines, I was particularly interested in LVTEX-3 in the version of the engineering machine and the fire support machine with a turret from Sheridan. I could not resist and tried on an old turret from Sheridan Tamiya on the body P7. And I think I know what kind of project I'm going to build......

But with this machine, one problem - catastrophically little information.



Truly fabulous work on those braces! I will redo the ones on my kit and hopefully get the same impressive results as your work.

Iíve been scouring high, low and in every crack and crevice I can think to find data/information on the turreted LVTEX3. I started a 1/72 attempt but unfortunately it met an untimely and ungraceful end when it got crushed while I was reorganizing my stash.

The noticeable differences Iíve been able to identify is a different bow pod which also necessitated modifying the pontoon pods. The bow pod is shorter and has a cut-out in center for the previously installed plow hydraulic cylinder. The antennas have been relocated to aft area of hull, near but not quite in same location as a 7A1. The turret sits atop some sort of plate or mount that probably covers the entire opening for the cargo hatches. The turreted version most probably had the escape hatch but I have not been able to locate any photos of the port side to verify or disprove that possibility. There is a good image of the vehicle in Tankogradís LVTP7 AAVP7A1 book and another in PANZER January 1980 magazine that provides better reference for location of that hatch.

The first image was very helpful with my attempted build Ė as well as my future attempt. I was able to extrapolate measurements of various components such as turret base height and bow pod length given he known diameter of roadwheels (26-inches).
Second image provides good view of the bow.
Third image is one I took in Barstow CA in 2010-ish and provides better view of bow pod and modified pontoon pod.
Fourth and fifth images I took at Camp Pendleton CA in 1993 and shows the vehicle much later in her life. She no longer had the turret but did have Bradley suspension and mounting bosses for the P-900 Applique Armor Kit.
When P-900 was replaced by EAAK the old armor was cut up and used as grates on the wash ditches on 3D Amphibious Assault Battalion ramp AND as grilles for battalion made bar-b-que pits. Other components of those bar-b-que pits consisted of empty 55-gallon drums that were cut in half.
I plan on building one of these as well, especially now that Tamiya has released a better turret for the Sheridan. I have the brass barrel in the stash already, now just need rest of the kits.

Good luck on this build, Iíll be watching the progress.




1993





AmTrac1833
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 02:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Danny can probably help with some details, if I am not mistaken this is his build years ago.

Little information works both ways. No one can prove you wrong on the details either. In a similar vane while talking about tuna boats, one day hope to have a LVTAA-X1, a LVTP-5 with the mounted M42 Duster 40mm guns.



I still have that kit on my shelf
It is AVTB's P3 as she sat on 3D AABn's ramp in 1995 awaiting SINCGARS modification. She had Bradley suspension but had not yet been modified with the upgraded engine/exhaust nor did she have EAAK mounts. I had opportunity with assisting in installing those mounts several years later.
This is also the same vehicle on which I became Vehicle Commander / Data Collector and is the same vehicle pictured earlier in this thread. After full modification she became POP 4. POP stood for Proof Of Production and the orange "B" on the nose indicated she had received the modification in Barstow, as did POP 2. POP 1 and POP 3 sported orange "A"s to indicate they had been modified at Albany. POP 3 also had a Purple Heart painted on her, her belly was still all sorts of warped from hitting a tank mine during Operation Desert Storm. POP 3 could not be repaired well enough to return to Fleet service but, was decent enough to continue as a test bed.
ivan_a
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Posted: Tuesday, December 25, 2018 - 03:03 AM UTC
Merry Christmas!

Thanks, Ryan. I carefully read all the works of Daniel that I could find. And I will use them as a model for my work. As for LVTAA-X1-this project is in my plans, together with LVTE1 and LVTR1.

Daniel, thank you for the assessment - and I continue. I am very grateful for your photos and explanations on turreted LVTEX3. Book Tankograd LVTP7 AAVP7A1 I found in one of the stores in Germany, will order in January and will gradually collect information. I wonder if this machine has preserved archival photographs or diagrams - from the factory or testing facilities? As for Barstow - do you have any other photos of this prototype-from other angles, is it currently on display? I think about the continuation of the project P7 in the future, including three transportech funds - turreted LVTEX3, LVTEX3-1 in the engineering option and the version of the MTU with the laser installation. But it's only my dreams so far:).

While progress is very slow-approaching Christmas, new year, holidays. I suddenly have a lot of work to do.in the meantime, I finished the braces on the P7 using the Voyager photo - etched parts and bolts masterclub. With this section all. And I'm moving on-the plan is to glue Edward's photo-etching onto two versions of the early P7 and get close to the engineering equipment on the early and late R7.

ivan_a
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Posted: Tuesday, January 08, 2019 - 04:10 AM UTC
Good day, colleagues! After a long absence, I continue construction.
I made additional support landing hatches, using plastic 0.5 mm, redid the round plugs on the sides (the original ones were damaged in the grinding process), supplemented them with bolts.
From the Eduard photo-etched parts I had replaced the cap drains to drain the water (I don't know how they correctly are called), replaced the arm hatches landing.


And diamond:) - I fixed the hatch locks in the open position, using Voyager as the basis for photo-etching. on the first photo-as it is offered to make according to the instruction, on the second - my option.

And a couple of facts found in the process of a long looking at the photos. 1-additional support landing hatches have not only the old P7 but all later modifications. 2 - on models and the Academy and Hobby boss is wrong (absolutely) made the suspension units ventilation and exhaust grilles. And I'm thinking now-to redo or leave as is? On photo - the original. Academy and Hobbyboss.
ivan_a
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Posted: Thursday, May 16, 2019 - 01:44 AM UTC
Greetings, colleagues!
I return to the project after a long absence. I need help. as I wrote earlier, the models incorrectly executed spension units ventilation and exhaust grills. I have the ability to make these brackets from photo-etching. but I need dimensions for that. In gratitude, I will share the finished products.