login   |    register
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Iraqi Sand Color
long_tom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 18, 2006
entire network: 1,877 Posts
KitMaker Network: 287 Posts
Posted: Sunday, September 09, 2018 - 03:28 AM UTC
While on the subject, it seems that Iraqi vehicles, at least modern ones, have an almost-white tan color. Or am I seeing things?
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 16,364 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,871 Posts
Posted: Sunday, September 09, 2018 - 11:45 PM UTC
Any and all US-supplied vehicles (M113s, M1A1s, MRAPs, HMMWVs, etc..) are in US CARC Tan (Testors MM Sand, FS33531), just like US vehicles. I can't attest to other nations that are supplying vehicles.
j76lr
Visit this Community
New Jersey, United States
Member Since: September 22, 2006
entire network: 1,008 Posts
KitMaker Network: 6 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 10, 2018 - 01:34 AM UTC
Whats the closest Tamiya OR REAL COLORS
RussianArmor
Visit this Community
Georgia, United States
Member Since: February 06, 2017
entire network: 110 Posts
KitMaker Network: 10 Posts
Posted: Monday, September 10, 2018 - 03:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Whats the closest Tamiya OR REAL COLORS



According to the "Ultimate Paint Conversion Chart" (paint4models.com), the Tamiya equivalent for FS33531 is XF-57 (Buff)
TopSmith
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: August 09, 2002
entire network: 1,093 Posts
KitMaker Network: 32 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 04:56 AM UTC
The Iraqi vehicles varried in color (1991). Some were a grayish sand color, some were sand, some were a tan. On top of that add weathering and wear and tear.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 2,169 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 06:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Iraqi vehicles varried in color (1991). Some were a grayish sand color, some were sand, some were a tan. On top of that add weathering and wear and tear.



I think he's talking about the newly supplied equipment-- not the DS-DS or OIF Saddam Hussein era stuff. The current US supplied equipment is CARC painted as Gino mentioned above. Tamiya Buff is indeed a good color choice for replicating it, although for some shade differences I'd add a touch of Tamiya Yellow.
VR, Russ
long_tom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 18, 2006
entire network: 1,877 Posts
KitMaker Network: 287 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The Iraqi vehicles varried in color (1991). Some were a grayish sand color, some were sand, some were a tan. On top of that add weathering and wear and tear.


I did mean the modern but thanks for the info on the older material.
GulfWarrior
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: January 05, 2010
entire network: 311 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 12:51 PM UTC
1991 isn’t modern? 😁 Y’all trying to say that Gino and I were on Grant’s staff at Appomattox?
long_tom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 18, 2006
entire network: 1,877 Posts
KitMaker Network: 287 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

1991 isn’t modern? 😁 Y’all trying to say that Gino and I were on Grant’s staff at Appomattox?


Well, it is the last century...
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 2,169 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

1991 isn’t modern? 😁 Y’all trying to say that Gino and I were on Grant’s staff at Appomattox?



Well, if 1991 is Modern, then I served with Washington at Valley Forge. In the great scheme of things, 1991 was 27 years ago. Hardly “modern”. In the 30 years I was in (75-2006) I went from a WWII steel pot to a “modern” Kevlar helmet, four different combat uniforms, an entire generation of tanks, and a completely new fighting vehicle concept. I think you could effectively state the “modern” US Army is earmarked by the “Stryker doctrine”. That’s when we went from heavy armor formations to more lethal integrated light formations. So no, 1991 was not “modern” by today’s standard. You can now join the rest of us in the rubbish pile of history!
VR, Russ

P.S.— But if it was really “modern” the Iraqi army wouldn’t be driving it around —the concept behind the M113 is nearly 60 years old now!
BunkerBuster
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 29, 2017
entire network: 62 Posts
KitMaker Network: 26 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:41 PM UTC
I see no mention of FS33446 in this thread. Mig and AK real colors calls FS33446 "modern" sand. Olive-drab.com calls this color out as the initial sand introduced during ODS through today (no mention of FS33531). Hataka calls FS33446 out as ODS era and FS33531 as OIF/OEF.

So...which FS# is correct for ODS and which is correct for OIF/OEF?
GulfWarrior
Visit this Community
Texas, United States
Member Since: January 05, 2010
entire network: 311 Posts
KitMaker Network: 2 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 01:41 PM UTC
Fair enough, Russ!

Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 2,169 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Thursday, September 13, 2018 - 02:17 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I see no mention of FS33446 in this thread. Mig and AK real colors calls FS33446 "modern" sand. Olive-drab.com calls this color out as the initial sand introduced during ODS through today (no mention of FS33531). Hataka calls FS33446 out as ODS era and FS33531 as OIF/OEF.

So...which FS# is correct for ODS and which is correct for OIF/OEF?



Well.. I think the original poster was asking about Tamiya colors. And not for OIF/OEF but for "modern" Iraqi vehicles. And the colors have seemed to get lighter since the initial OIF/OEF deployments, especially on FMS equipment.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 16,364 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,871 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2018 - 01:30 AM UTC
No idea where they get FS33446 for modern CARC Tan. It is way too dark if you ask me.

As I said, FS33531 is almost a perfect match to actual vehicles I have served on. The color has not changed since the mid-90s either. It was the same in the early days of OIF/OEF in '03 as it is now. It does fade pretty quickly in the desert sun and looks lighter under bright sun though.

For ODS, '90-'91, the color painted on vehicles that were coming into Saudi Arabia was not an FS color, but a locally purchased sandy-colored paint that was quickly applied to them. The paint was not very durable and chipped off quickly. It was also a more brown color than the current military applied sand color. Testors Army/Marines Gulf Armor Sand represents this color well.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 2,169 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2018 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text



....For ODS, '90-'91, the color painted on vehicles that were coming into Saudi Arabia was not an FS color, but a locally purchased sandy-colored paint that was quickly applied to them. The paint was not very durable and chipped off quickly. It was also a more brown color than the current military applied sand color. Testors Army/Marines Gulf Armor Sand represents this color well.



Yes, Oops— meant the tan paint has gotten lighter since DS/DS, not OIF like I said in the earlier post—my mistake. like I said I’ve been around since Washington crossed the Delaware (seems like it anyway!) and I sometimes mix my wars together by accident. The European shades of CARC paint became available in the mid 80s, but Tan was not a widely available CARC color at the time since it wasn’t in as much demand (I did CARC testing at DPG for a short time on an M1 prototype in 1983-4 which was destroyed during testing).

As Gino said, Tan CARC wasn’t fully available in the quantities required during DS/DS, which was a largely “come as you are” conflict, and paint was scrounged from all sources to quickly equip DS/DS units. On the other hand, OIF had the “modern” lighter tan CARC widely available. The “modern” CARC paint is definitely a lighter shade than those found in DS/DS—jeeze— I almost typed “OIF” again!! Gotta stop mixing up my conflicts. Next thing I’ll be confusing Panama and Grenada! Maybe I’ve lived through too many of them— they’re starting to blend together!
VR, Russ
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 16,364 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,871 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2018 - 05:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

...I’ve been around since Washington crossed the Delaware...



I hear you Russ. I now have a Major working with me who was born when I was in high school. We are quickly becoming the "old breed".
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 2,169 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Friday, September 14, 2018 - 07:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...I’ve been around since Washington crossed the Delaware...



I hear you Russ. I now have a Major working with me who was born when I was in high school. We are quickly becoming the "old breed".



In 1998, when I was in my War College course, we used to joke about the "retired" instructors, calling them the "Gray Beards". Now "I are one". Dr. Swain, who I knew quite well, wrote the book "Lucky War the 7th Army in Desert Storm". And that was when that operation was the one we studied back then-- and he had a full gray beard. It's an eye opening experience to wake up and realize one morning while looking in the mirror that your beard is now truly gray!
VR, Russ
long_tom
Visit this Community
Illinois, United States
Member Since: March 18, 2006
entire network: 1,877 Posts
KitMaker Network: 287 Posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 - 02:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

...I’ve been around since Washington crossed the Delaware...



I hear you Russ. I now have a Major working with me who was born when I was in high school. We are quickly becoming the "old breed".



In 1998, when I was in my War College course, we used to joke about the "retired" instructors, calling them the "Gray Beards". Now "I are one". Dr. Swain, who I knew quite well, wrote the book "Lucky War the 7th Army in Desert Storm". And that was when that operation was the one we studied back then-- and he had a full gray beard. It's an eye opening experience to wake up and realize one morning while looking in the mirror that your beard is now truly gray!
VR, Russ


I remember a birthday card showing a gray kitten on the cover. Inside it says, "See? The more gray hairs you have, the cuter you look." Actually domestic cats often have gray fur which turns to dark gray or black as they reach adulthood.

So for Iraqi older-model camouflage, it's basically any shade of light tan?
HeavyArty
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Member Since: May 16, 2002
entire network: 16,364 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,871 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 04:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

It's an eye opening experience to wake up and realize one morning while looking in the mirror that your beard is now truly gray!


Yup, I am pretty much a "Gray Beard" now as well.


Quoted Text

So for Iraqi older-model camouflage, it's basically any shade of light tan?



Pretty much any sandy/tan color will do. They didn't seem to have a standard color.
Kevlar06
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 15, 2009
entire network: 2,169 Posts
KitMaker Network: 330 Posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 19, 2018 - 07:17 AM UTC
It’s encouraging to me about getting older and still having this hobby after many decades. I’m also encouraged by the growing number of senior retired military officers and NCOs, and droves of other veterans who enjoy building models. A friend and fellow aircraft and car modeler (who was a retired USAF MSG)passed away last year, and I met his Brother at the funeral. It turns out he is a retired USMC BG. He told me he was an avid Armor model builder and has been since he was a kid. I think the days of hanging out in the “Hobby closet” are over!
VR, Russ