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Military history and past events only. Rants or inflamitory comments will be removed.
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What if England?
RufusLeeking
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Ohio, United States
Member Since: January 18, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 09:35 PM UTC
What if, after the fall of France, England and Canada joined with Germany and the other Axis nations? The frenchCanadians declare their independence from Canada and wish to remain neutral. Roosevelt signs a non-aggression pact with the new Axis nations but in the spring of 1941 axis troops mass along the US and Canadian border. And in June German and Canadian troops roll into Alaska? You are Roosevelt, what would you do?
staff_Jim
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New Hampshire, United States
Member Since: December 15, 2001
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Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 10:38 PM UTC
Hmm.... declare war on Canada first!

I think we could have taken Canada. But seriously thank god that facsism had no strong foothold in England. The reality is (in a worst case scenario) that assuming the U.S. was able to secure North America (which I think would have been the case), that an Axis invasion of this hemisphere would have been very difficult without a base of operations (like Canada or Mexico). The same is true if we had no England. The world would be a different place today to be sure.

Jim
Sabot
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Posted: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 - 11:23 PM UTC
Two words: Monroe Doctrine.

US would have occupied Canada to insure they did not fall under Nazi influence. Besides the Soviet Union, no other nation during WWII could match the US in manpower alone, let alone industrial capability. Think we fought hard during D-Day, the MTO, the PTO? Imagine how hard the US would have fought in a NATO (North American Theater of Operations).
RufusLeeking
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Ohio, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:29 AM UTC
True Rob, but were we ready for war in 1941? We were not the same military power as in 1944. Still would make a cool computer game, tank battles in the Dakotas, air war over N.Y. city, panzer attacks through the Michigan, U-boats in lake erie?
Sabot
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Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:51 AM UTC
No, but the UK capitulating to the Germans in 1940 and Canada joining them would have had us prepping for war by the end of 1940. Pearl Harbor may not have happened since air patrols would have been up constantly. Imagine the amount of equipment available to the US forces since we wouldn't be shipping the stuff "Lend Lease" to the other Allies. Our forces wouldn't be the most highly trained, but we would have had a large standing army with a large amount of equipment. Even the M3 Lee would rule supreme in the North American continent, no other tanks to fight against.

We spent a lot of the early years shipping out supplies, equipment and raw materials to our friends in England. Instead of mass producing Liberty ships to get stuff there, if we used those resources to produce patrol boats, subs and destroyers, etc. we could have shut both coasts and eliminated Canada as a maritime nation.

As the Soviet Union proved, it is easier to fight on your home turf than to produce ships, load men & materiel onto them and send those forces across the open sea to fight somewhere else.
Colonel
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Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 01:11 PM UTC
If the US took a neutral stand and did not commit itself to on the side of the Allies in WWII, especially in the European theatre, I believe England would have be lost and the war would have ended sooner with Europe and Asia Pacific under Axis control.

There would be a stalemate for many years as both sides recuperate and a Cold War of a different kind would have occured with the US and the Axis powers. There would be no A-Bomb invented by the US, no Tiger I, Kingtiger or Panthers tanks, no V1 or V2 rockets.

Finally, WWIII would probably have occured around 1960s with a much larger scale in devastation and casualties.

If such scenario was true, we would not be modelling tanks, airplanes, ships, dios today. Instead we woud still be picking thru the ruins
drewgimpy
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Utah, United States
Member Since: January 24, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, February 07, 2002 - 03:44 PM UTC
We have way to many guns in this country for an invasion to work. Forget about tanks and all the big weapons, any force here would be under constant attack from the general public. They would have to kill almost everyone house to house, sorta like what we would have faced in Japan only we would have guns, not pitch forks to fight back with. Recent events and history have proven that when we are attacked on our land there is hell to pay. In the revelutionary war we where overpowered by forces 100s if not 1000s of times as powerful as us and sent them home a couple times with their tales between there legs.
Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:23 PM UTC
if only..........................
m60a3
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Georgia, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:06 AM UTC
Four words:
God Bless Winston Churchill!
Arthur
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 03:07 AM UTC
In order for Britain to capitulate the Germans would have had to cross the channel,
with no overall control of the channel,and no control of the sea.When you consider the scale of the Normandy landings you can imagine how near impossible that would have been.
But back to the hypothosis.The Royal Family and possibly Winston would have been in Canada by that time and i cannot see the Canadians giving way to Hitler,there was still
Australia New Zealand India etc.It would have a long drawn out affair,and American politics
would have been in a mess,with the Isolationists wanting to stay out,and people like
Patton and his kind knowing it was only a matter of time before they had to act.Young
American volunteers would have been flooding over the border in numbers that would have put the International brigades to shame.It would have been a bitter pill for all thinking Americans to swallow,when the Nazi regime embarked on the final solution,i dont think it would have been long before America was in.
Cheers
Arthur
Chief
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Washington, United States
Member Since: February 07, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 03:47 AM UTC
IMHO.....England capitulates, the Picts and Celts from Scotland and Ireland mass on the border, attack, conquer England and put a Stewart back on the throne. Single Malt and Haggis become the national drinks and food, Sterling Castle becomes the seat of power, B.P. is turned into a brothel, Parliment a Casino and the Tower is a new amusement park. OH WAIT!!! Thats the NEXT Black Adder episode. Never mind!
Eagle
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Member Since: May 22, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 05:25 AM UTC
I would have bought the Army warm clothing......and started to kick ass across the border......

That should have had eased up things for a while until.....Margaret Thatcher would reach her maturity and started to make "love not war" with China.

China, as it didn't want to be involved in a conflict itself, would then mobilise Vietnam. But the Vietnamese, being unable to fly or row over to the States, only started to shout at the States and only were able to run around in a part of their own country.

By then the media had started to cover the worldnews and the running around in Vietnam was braodcasted on TV.

A certain Mr. Westmoreland who saw the running around on TV, really got fed up with the little roadrunners. He then decided that if Moses wouldn't come to the mountain, the mountain would go to moses....He went to the local bar, talked to a couple of his friends and on their way to Vietnam they where.

Well..... and from there on we know the story.

I was glad to help you out on this one.....

ne more questions about history ?

a twisted mind is a joy forever
Arthur
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:55 AM UTC
Hey chief....you have read the unpublished journal of Angus Og,you forgot to mention that
all able bodied men from the Highlands,fortified with wee nips,gathered by Hadrians Wall
to fling its stones,and repulse the Hun hordes,and while the enemy wasin disarray whip
back to the Firth of Clyde,and dig a channel to the Firth of Forth.With the enemy thus sealed
and the English and lowlanders left to slave in the German versions of fast food joints,with
very low wages,our glorius polititians,at point of broadsword,dash off to France,and revive
the Republics morale,taking the germans in the rear,ending the war that afternoon.With the
victorius and gallant Highlanders giving the Germans a Braveheart wave(kilts up no knickers)
The enemy capitulates
From the unpublished journal of Angus Og
Arthur
am alba mannich
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 08:34 PM UTC
hey arthur,
the scots could easely kick brit tail. up with your kilt highlander.
chris
Chief
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Washington, United States
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2002 - 12:01 AM UTC
With the
victorius and gallant Highlanders giving the Germans a Braveheart wave(kilts up no knickers)

Arthur-Is there any other way for a Scot to wear a kilt or salute someone "Not of the Heilan Persuasion"? I wears ma kilt in regimental style!
Arthur
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2002 - 01:21 AM UTC
It depends on how bad the winter is,its no fun trying to run with an icicle between your legs
Arthur
am alba mannich
Eagle
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Member Since: May 22, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2002 - 05:10 PM UTC
You're right on that one Arthur.....
They should have worn those red and white tags between their legs. You know the "Defrost before fight" tags
Eagle
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Member Since: May 22, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2002 - 05:11 PM UTC
You're right on that one Arthur.....
They should have worn those red and white tags between their legs. You know the "Remove and Defrost before fight" tags
Arthur
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2002 - 07:03 PM UTC
red and white,ooooooo i dont think so,just gives the enemy a better target to shoot at,
a wooly sock would do.
Arthur
am alba mannich
Eagle
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Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Member Since: May 22, 2002
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Posted: Friday, May 24, 2002 - 11:19 PM UTC
One wooly sock a day sure keeps them doctors away.....
sourkraut
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Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 11:55 AM UTC
i think the brits better be grateful the scots didnt attack
Chief
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Washington, United States
Member Since: February 07, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, May 25, 2002 - 10:30 PM UTC
Arthur-COOL AVATAR Mate! :-)
Arthur
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 02:41 AM UTC
I thought i would put on my glengarry,and join the New York Volunteers(Civil War)seems
i was i wee bit late.
Arthur
Am Alba Mannich
Posted: Sunday, May 26, 2002 - 11:36 AM UTC
the scots in their own way were always more civilized than the brits anyway, and probably had better teeth.
Arthur
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England - South West, United Kingdom
Member Since: March 13, 2002
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Posted: Monday, May 27, 2002 - 04:01 AM UTC
Hey Pak....when your pickled you dont feel pain.
Arthur
Am alba mannich