I stumbled onto this thread late in the game, but as a Master Chief submariner (who loves armor models!) I've gotta respond. While battleshps can definitely deliver needed support to the Marines, their time has come and gone. The Navy could easily man the battleships- if our authorized end strength is increased by Congress (not gonna happen). Additionally, the cost of upgrading 4 BB's for the 21st century would not make as much sense vice refueling/converting 4 SSBNs to SSGNs(COST= ABOUT $2 Billion. The SSGNs will be able to carry as many tomahawks as an entire Battlegroup AND will carry Special Forces (SEALS) without being detected. I'm probably biased (I will be COB on one of the SSGNs next year) but for my money, the Subs are the way to go.

Chief--welcome. This is a great medium to discuss and explore various topics. I appreciate your remarks on the BBs. Trust you will monitor the site and post appropriate topics for us to kick around. Congrats on becoming COB.
DJ

Yep, but aren't subs quite expensive to purchase/build and operate? Aren't it expensive to train crews for subs..I'm not sure, since my country just bought 3 conventional subs ( from france?)..

Besides, I would rather be on a platform that no one can see than on one with 12" thick armor any day

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Besides, I would rather be on a platform that no one can see than on one with 12" thick armor any day

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Cob,
I think you are right there. Long ago I imagined (in sort of a future-sci-fi way) a submersible carrier. Of course it would be launching helos or vertical takeoff vehicles, but I just got a big kick out of imagining it surfacing to launch it's forces against some unsupecting foe. :-)

Welcome to the site!

Cheers,
Jim

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Besides, I would rather be on a platform that no one can see than on one with 12" thick armor any day

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Cob,
I think you are right there. Long ago I imagined (in sort of a future-sci-fi way) a submersible carrier. Of course it would be launching helos or vertical takeoff vehicles, but I just got a big kick out of imagining it surfacing to launch it's forces against some unsupecting foe. :-)

Welcome to the site!

Cheers,
Jim

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Thanks for the welcome. The great thing about this site (IMHO) as opposed to some others I have visited is the easygoing attitude and the willingness to disagree without getting nasty. Good job !
I've improved my airbrushing ability a hundredfold because of the posts from the folks on this great site.
I think an underwater carrier is a great concept too. I have no idea where you'd find someone willing to pilot that kind of aircraft, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere

sorry, i believe that submarine warfare will soon not be as effective as it is now. what with improvements in satellite technology in Russia and China. sure they are still behind us in technology, but gaining fast. so, soon subs won't be the stealth weapon platforms they are now. advances in motion detection, satellite lens clearity, sound detection and anti-sub weaponry will take the fear out of the underwater threat. soon an enemy will be able to see a sub in the ocean by just sweeping with a satellite and then destroy said sub with a particle weapon. both China and Russia are still working on this technology. they are not as bad off as the west thinks they are.
still need the big boats to lay down heavy conventional firepower. nuclear exchanges WILL escalate and do more than intended. so warships always need to be modernized at all times(no matter what the cost) and show our enemies that we mean business. some countries only respect actually physical presence of strength and not empty threats.

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sorry, i believe that submarine warfare will soon not be as effective as it is now. what with improvements in satellite technology in Russia and China. sure they are still behind us in technology, but gaining fast. so, soon subs won't be the stealth weapon platforms they are now. advances in motion detection, satellite lens clearity, sound detection and anti-sub weaponry will take the fear out of the underwater threat. soon an enemy will be able to see a sub in the ocean by just sweeping with a satellite and then destroy said sub with a particle weapon. both China and Russia are still working on this technology. they are not as bad off as the west thinks they are.
still need the big boats to lay down heavy conventional firepower. nuclear exchanges WILL escalate and do more than intended. so warships always need to be modernized at all times(no matter what the cost) and show our enemies that we mean business. some countries only respect actually physical presence of strength and not empty threats.

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Pak---does your projection on future satellite technolgy imply that in order to protect existing technologies, a nation will develop killer satellites?
DJ

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sorry, i believe that submarine warfare will soon not be as effective as it is now. what with improvements in satellite technology in Russia and China. sure they are still behind us in technology, but gaining fast. so, soon subs won't be the stealth weapon platforms they are now. advances in motion detection, satellite lens clearity, sound detection and anti-sub weaponry will take the fear out of the underwater threat. soon an enemy will be able to see a sub in the ocean by just sweeping with a satellite and then destroy said sub with a particle weapon. both China and Russia are still working on this technology. they are not as bad off as the west thinks they are.
still need the big boats to lay down heavy conventional firepower. nuclear exchanges WILL escalate and do more than intended. so warships always need to be modernized at all times(no matter what the cost) and show our enemies that we mean business. some countries only respect actually physical presence of strength and not empty threats.

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Pak---does your projection on future satellite technolgy imply that in order to protect existing technologies, a nation will develop killer satellites?
DJ

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Pak, The technologies you are talking about are probably decades away. However, you make a good point. If the ocean ever becomes transparent and if anyone developes a particle beam weapon then the subs would quickly become as obsolete as the BBs. Those are some big ifs. Things don't work always work in real life like a Tom Clancy novel either. Using the "big ocean theory", a satellite that could "see" underwater would still be hard-pressed to find a sub. During exercises, we routinely tell P-3's where we are and they still have trouble locating us.

Cob--I worked for a retired P-3 pilot. I fully appreciate what you mean....
DJ

Cob---Having an enormous sense of humor is the key mark of getting along in the retired community. I might pass on some advice I received and reflect on "hang your ego up next to your uniform when you retire." Those who can not accomodate the transition, do not survive.
DJ