Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 10:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
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Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
I agree with you....let the rest of the world kill itself and mind our own business
Well, you present us the $64 question. "World Policeman." An interesting title. Is that a fitting crown? I prefer to say that our Nation sees dumb things about to happen and says "wait a minute." I am pretty proud that we told people in the world (Yugoslavia, Israel, Pak/India), stop and think for a minute. If my Country achieved that end and people really do pause and consider the destruction they are about to bring upon themselves and other--God Bless America for having the internal fortitude to see evil and attempt to do something about it.
we have over 750 in the armorama family.with our members being spread out all over the world.i hope no one in our group is affected be this.
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:05 AM UTC
Scott--the truly unfortunate thing is that if they start tossing nukes, we'll all be affected.
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
I agree with you....let the rest of the world kill itself and mind our own business
Well, you present us the $64 question. "World Policeman." An interesting title. Is that a fitting crown? I prefer to say that our Nation sees dumb things about to happen and says "wait a minute." I am pretty proud that we told people in the world (Yugoslavia, Israel, Pak/India), stop and think for a minute. If my Country achieved that end and people really do pause and consider the destruction they are about to bring upon themselves and other--God Bless America for having the internal fortitude to see evil and attempt to do something about it.
and what if we were not the worlds policeman,then what?
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Scott--the truly unfortunate thing is that if they start tossing nukes, we'll all be affected.
DJ
this is true,the sad thing is some people are sticking their heads in the sand like an ostrich,thinking that will make the problem go away or that it doesnt even exsist at all
and of course some of us will be affected more than others
British Columbia, Canada
Member Since: May 06, 2002
entire network: 110 Posts
KitMaker Network: 0 Posts
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:47 AM UTC
Hey Guys
Just to weigh in on this from a different perspective. I was born in India, I am of Indian descent but I never actually lived in India. I moved to Canada in 1990 when i was 7 years old and consider myself Canadian. I can honestly say that I have very minimal ties to my Indian culture...I cannot speak, read and write the language and I feel no relationship to Indian traditions and culture.
That being said I can provide some insight into the Indian point of view. I wanted to see my dads view on the situation and I asked him. My dad lived in India during the previous two wars and I thought it best to see his viewpoint. Surprisingly he told me he didnt even bother about it. More surprisingly he mentioned that most people in India dont care about the reasons behind the conflict. According to him, and I believe him, most of the Indian educated class realize that the contentious issue here is Kashmir and dominance in the region. It has minimally anything to do with religion or ethnicity. After all India has a larger Muslim population than Pakistan. Threfore it is a war being fought by the governments and not the people. It is each respective government that wants to project power in the region. The leaders are the ones bickering and starting conflicts. If you asked any Pakistani or Indian on the street youd be surprised to hear that most dont give a rats a$$ about Kashmir. They could care less who controls it. Its the governments and the military infastructure that keep adding fuel to the fire, not the peopl of the two counties.
Have a good day
Leader
Alabama, United States
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 179 Posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
I agree with you....let the rest of the world kill itself and mind our own business[/quote]
I also agree. Why should we care so much if people on the other side of the world want to kill each other? I know, one might say, "well what their nuclear weapons?" All I can say to that is that
if they are smart enough to know how to build nukes then they should be smart enough to know not to use them. I seem to remeber an incident in 1993 in Somalia where 18 US soldiers lost their lives. This happened after a long period where the US tried helping the famished Somalis. Then we tried to help by taking down Aidid, once the head warlord of Somalia (I think he might be dead now?), and all we got was dead soldiers being dragged through the streets. So I think that we shouldn't always have to be "World Policeman."
Mark
Oklahoma, United States
Member Since: March 13, 2002
entire network: 223 Posts
KitMaker Network: 83 Posts
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 02:36 AM UTC
Interesting perspective Lead . Pac Im almost in agreement with you.
What we really need to think about is the two major powers in that
area russia and china neither of these to are best of buds,
provoking either one of these could ruin somebodies day.
At this time that would not be hard. Think of the reprocussions world
wide that this have.Four countries all with nuc's and all pissed.
ponysoldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
The Horse The Gun The Man
ponysoldier
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
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Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 03:59 AM UTC
Leader---Truly some great insights into the interfacing of the two governments and their populations. There is a theory called Maslow's Hiearchy of Need which is probably applicable here. This theory states people satisfy needs and move to the next level of needs. Thus, your basic need level is that of survival. If you do not have enough to eat or a place to live, you ain't too interested in tossin nukes or for that matter do not really care about what is happening in Kashmir as you are trying to survive in some other hell hole. We mentioned several times the frustration level we experience as a result of our living on a different plane from those of other humans. They want to live and be prosperous just as much as anyone. In my view they have a culture which would rather keep them in near starvation status in order to build nukes. Beam me up!
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:08 PM UTC
any war now is very terrible to contemplate.............BOOM..............millions dead, end of story.
where glory in that
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 08:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
any war now is very terrible to contemplate.............BOOM..............millions dead, end of story.
where glory in that
Amen, Brother. I say again, I am proud that our Nation is sitting on its hands and saying "Oh whoa is me." Let's do everything we can to do to stop the madness. Lord, if they can that much time and money into making a nuke, can't they apply their knowledge to eliminate the cycle of poverty and ignorance within their borders?
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Alabama, United States
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 179 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 06:42 AM UTC
Tell me, where is the honor of killing millions of innocent people with a weapon fired thousands of miles away.
Mark
Texas, United States
Member Since: March 20, 2002
entire network: 525 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 08:28 AM UTC
#:-)
CAREFUL PAK-40 THE POLITICALLY CORRECT POLICE MIGHT GET OFFENDED AND COME LOOKING FOR YOU.........LOL
DAGGER-1 " When Science Fails, Brute Force Wins"
TEAM BRAVO: Superior Weapons & Firepower, Training & Leadership, Victory First
The World Next !!
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 09:02 AM UTC
I am starting a new post....Arab--Israeli conflict. want to join in?
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 608 Posts
KitMaker Network: 171 Posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 09:34 AM UTC
I have read some interesting information about the last couple of wars. One of the accounts was about an armored battle on the border. The Indians attacked... but had bad intelligence and the Pakistanis ambushed them. It was not pretty. They were fighting with M-47's and M-48's and such. Interesting story. I will have to find it and post the bookmark.
Always Ready, Second to None.
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 11:36 AM UTC
I hate PC with every fiber of my being. the ACLU should hung, dried, then skinned and left to the crows. it's hard when brothers don't get along.
Georgia, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 778 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 11:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have read some interesting information about the last couple of wars. One of the accounts was about an armored battle on the border. The Indians attacked... but had bad intelligence and the Pakistanis ambushed them. It was not pretty. They were fighting with M-47's and M-48's and such. Interesting story. I will have to find it and post the bookmark.
Hope you can find that site....I have read the account of Uttar Pradesh, where the Indian Centurions lit up a bunch of poorly deployed Pakistani M-48s. They called the area after the battle "Patton Nagar"...the Patton graveyard.
"It is the Americans who are absorbant and yellow and porous!" -BaghdadBob SquarePants
Bob Morales
Former 12C3C
2/102 Armor
"On The Way!"
Washington, United States
Member Since: March 08, 2002
entire network: 608 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 11:47 AM UTC
Always Ready, Second to None.
European Union
Member Since: February 15, 2002
entire network: 2,289 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 06:34 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Too bad this seems to happen in countries where, if you go back far enough, they are basically the same people. Your average outsider probably could not tell the difference between an Indian and a Pakistani (or the ones fighting in the former Yugoslavia).
Rob,
Though they are basically the same people, there's an important religious difference. Religious differences have cost many people's lives in the past, and will continue to do so in the future.
Let's hope our future posts in the "diorama" forum don't have to deal with scale modeling the impact of nukes.
It's sad, really. We in the Western world, living our well-paid lives at both sides of the Atlantic seem to know all the good answers, while a few million people in mid-Asia are acheing to slit eachother throats. They lose parents and children in a senseless conflict, and for us it becomes an "interesting diorama topic" (*).
Sure takes away some of the fun in modeling...
(*) that is : until someone starts pushing the wrong buttons. Since we discovered the horror of nuclear weapons there has been an unspoken rule that no-one resorts to this. If they do, terrorists may start to do the same...
Who the hell is General Failure, and why was he reading my hard disk ?
Where's my funky Iraqi general rank that was here on my profile a few years ago? Did they strip my rank, after all I've done for this forum ? Robbery!!
Oklahoma, United States
Member Since: March 01, 2002
entire network: 6,043 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,603 Posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 07:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
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Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
I agree with you....let the rest of the world kill itself and mind our own business
Well, you present us the $64 question. "World Policeman." An interesting title. Is that a fitting crown? I prefer to say that our Nation sees dumb things about to happen and says "wait a minute." I am pretty proud that we told people in the world (Yugoslavia, Israel, Pak/India), stop and think for a minute. If my Country achieved that end and people really do pause and consider the destruction they are about to bring upon themselves and other--God Bless America for having the internal fortitude to see evil and attempt to do something about it.
and what if we were not the worlds policeman,then what?
A country that Stands Tall and Proud and let nobody but nobody mess with HER. Okay we are the Largest free country in the WHOLE WORLD if it was not for us their most likley would be no FREE WORLD period. This I guess is why we must be THE WORLD'S POLICEMAN we see somebody breaking the law we go after them first in a democratic way and then by force if necessary. look at Nam what a waste of Amercian lives why did we not just carpet bomb them until they surrendered. After the war the president of North Vietnam said that if we had not stopped the bombing they would have gave up,why did Nixon stop cause of American feelings against killing civilians. This countries people have to be 100% behind a war of the scale that will take place in the future like they were behind the president in WW2. They are not all their yet hope they jump on the bandwagon before it is too late. Civilians will die in the next war lots of them can not be avoided in order to win. If my opinion sounds rough it is after talking to ex Vietnam Vets for plenty of years when I first joined in 1975,boy I tried to go to cambodia but they were all gone. Remember the Kamer Rouge.
my $1.00 worth stock market maybe good today
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 07:50 PM UTC
SGT-- It is difficult to explain to others without seeming to say "we are better than you," but our Nation stands for freedom. We have not always perfectly applied the ideals to either our domestic or international activities, but our batting average is way above other attempts. I reflect back on the entry made in this thread by a fellow from Canada whose lineage comes from India. In effect he said that the guy on the street wants to live and do well. This is a normal human aspiration. Government's role is to satisfy the aspirations of the people. For a govenment to divert intellectual and financial capital to building nukes while people live in hovels is despicable. That the world is beginning to appreciate how dumb this all is over some dirt hole called Kashmir is seen by the remarks coming from the regional conference in Kazikstan. Now, we have the leaders of both India and Pakistan saying "what, me use nukes! Never happen." They are backing down because everyone has shouted at them to cool it. I am very glad our Nation led the effort.
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Virginia, United States
Member Since: April 11, 2002
entire network: 760 Posts
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Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 08:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
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Quote:
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Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree with you....let the rest of the world kill itself and mind our own business
I also agree. Why should we care so much if people on the other side of the world want to kill each other? I know, one might say, "well what their nuclear weapons?" All I can say to that is that if they are smart enough to know how to build nukes then they should be smart enough to know not to use them. I seem to remeber an incident in 1993 in Somalia where 18 US soldiers lost their lives. This happened after a long period where the US tried helping the famished Somalis. Then we tried to help by taking down Aidid, once the head warlord of Somalia (I think he might be dead now?), and all we got was dead soldiers being dragged through the streets. So I think that we shouldn't always have to be "World Policeman."
Mark
[/quote]
Just a thought:
One reason that we have to be "The World's Policemen" is to protect our own national interest. I understand that people don't want to see American's dying in these foreign conflicts, but sometimes that is necessary to protect our interests. With the whole global economy so tightly coupled, a nuclear war between India and Pakistan would greatly effect the world's economy which in turn effects our economy. Besides that, it would completely destabilize the entire region which would have a major impact on the world. The same goes for the middle east because anything that destablizes the region screws up the world's oil prices which is not a good thing. The same can be said for the conflicts in the Balkan's during the late 80s and early 90s. That war had the potential to spread into the rest of Europe which woudl have been very bad for our country. That is why we get involved in these affairs. It has nothing to do with "stopping evil" or doing what is right, but rather a sense of protecting our own butts. Some wouldn't agree with this way of doing business, but I do. I certainly wouldn't want to go and die in some foreign war just because it was a "good" thing.
My 2 cents.
European Union
Member Since: February 15, 2002
entire network: 2,289 Posts
KitMaker Network: 532 Posts
Posted: Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 10:28 PM UTC
I spent my (draft) army days in Europe during the cold war. We were trained with the possibility of a nuclear war, but in our hearts we had a reassuring feeling that no-one would ever be stupid enough to push that button.
911 changed that reassurance. Though no nukes were involved, there's that imaginary line that drafts the rules of conflict. That line was crossed on 9/11.
During the events of 9/11, many feared that the US would retaliate with "tactical" nukes. Luckily, they had the sense not to take that step. Heaven knows how close we came to that.
For the first time ever, many of us now have a feeling that there is a distinct possibility that things can take a very wrong turn in Kashmir soon...
There's no honor in taking someone's life. Not in killing millions of innocent people, not even in killing one guilty person. Even if the whole world would live in peace, it would be a huge challenge to (try to) evenly share this planet and the fruits it brings with all.
I don't believe in praying, but I sure hope there's enough common sense in all of them to think twice about using those bombs. And there should be enough common sense in US not to sit and wait to see who gets killed, but to strongly speak out against the taking of lives - innocent or not.
Who the hell is General Failure, and why was he reading my hard disk ?
Where's my funky Iraqi general rank that was here on my profile a few years ago? Did they strip my rank, after all I've done for this forum ? Robbery!!
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2002 - 12:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I spent my (draft) army days in Europe during the cold war. We were trained with the possibility of a nuclear war, but in our hearts we had a reassuring feeling that no-one would ever be stupid enough to push that button.
911 changed that reassurance. Though no nukes were involved, there's that imaginary line that drafts the rules of conflict. That line was crossed on 9/11.
During the events of 9/11, many feared that the US would retaliate with "tactical" nukes. Luckily, they had the sense not to take that step. Heaven knows how close we came to that.
For the first time ever, many of us now have a feeling that there is a distinct possibility that things can take a very wrong turn in Kashmir soon...
There's no honor in taking someone's life. Not in killing millions of innocent people, not even in killing one guilty person. Even if the whole world would live in peace, it would be a huge challenge to (try to) evenly share this planet and the fruits it brings with all.
I don't believe in praying, but I sure hope there's enough common sense in all of them to think twice about using those bombs. And there should be enough common sense in US not to sit and wait to see who gets killed, but to strongly speak out against the taking of lives - innocent or not.
Well, you will not get any arguments from me on that point. The cliche "world policemen" is somewhat a misnomer in these circumstances. A police force enforces the rules of law and order. What the world is attempting to do in the India-Pakistan dispute is to impress upon all parties the ill consequences of their actions on the rest of the world. I think that is finally showing some signs of progress. I once again ask the question that has my balding skull wracked..."what exactly is the issue(s) they are in dispute over?"
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
European Union
Member Since: February 15, 2002
entire network: 2,289 Posts
KitMaker Network: 532 Posts
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2002 - 12:22 AM UTC
I just read that the Chinese Govt. joins in the effort to try to find a stable solution to this crisis.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/south/06/03/pakistan.india/index.htmlWho the hell is General Failure, and why was he reading my hard disk ?
Where's my funky Iraqi general rank that was here on my profile a few years ago? Did they strip my rank, after all I've done for this forum ? Robbery!!
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Monday, June 03, 2002 - 12:28 AM UTC
I am sure news of the Chinese involvement will not exactly cause church bells to ring, however, it does point to the creation of concensus to stop this before it gets way,way out of hand. If you find a site that tells us what they are so mad about, I'd apreciate knowing about it.
thanks
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
