Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Scott--put on your thinking cap and let us know how you feel about the topic. This is not one of those quizzes where someone has the correct answers. I am totally mystified by why anyone, anywhere, for any reason would even contemplate employing the Doomsday weapons. As my friend Gunnie states rather eloquently what is the trigger point? Hell, what if they loose the in the Soceer Worl Cup matches? Ridding the earth of these weapons is about as realistic a goal as seeing the end of communism.....wait a minute, anything is possible!
DJ
there is only one way to feel about this,how do we stop it
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:42 AM UTC
LATEST NEWS-it seems that india is arming the misslles with conventional warheads.and moving the missles towards the boarder.
india has 150 nuclear warheads and pakistan has 50.
pakistan continues to move troops to the boarder
for armorama news this is scott atchison reporting.
stay tuned for further devolpments
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:59 AM UTC
Scott--this is moving towards the surreal. Are these folks really that fixated on the dirt that is Kashmir so as to destroy themselves rather than figure out there is better way to resolve the issue. By the way, does anyone know what the issues(s) are in this dispute?
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Scott--this is moving towards the surreal. Are these folks really that fixated on the dirt that is Kashmir so as to destroy themselves rather than figure out there is better way to resolve the issue. By the way, does anyone know what the issues(s) are in this dispute?
DJ
i geuss so
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:10 AM UTC
U.S.-
estimates that 12 million people will die in a nuclear exchange,and another 5-9 million will suffer injurys
California, United States
Member Since: December 01, 2001
entire network: 5,885 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:10 AM UTC
Museum Associate Curator, Military Vehicle Technology Foundation (MVTF), Portola Valley, California
GunTruck Studios
AMPS #1044
IPMS/USA #24551
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Scott--this is moving towards the surreal. Are these folks really that fixated on the dirt that is Kashmir so as to destroy themselves rather than figure out there is better way to resolve the issue. By the way, does anyone know what the issues(s) are in this dispute?
DJ
dj,you are trying to get some type of understanding of all this,personally i dont think that is possible.dont try to get into their mind set,you will drive yourself crazy.you can not rationalize what is insane
New York, United States
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 1,065 Posts
KitMaker Network: 497 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:20 AM UTC
NEW DELHI (Reuters) - A large number of al Qaeda militants have moved to Pakistani Kashmir from Afghanistan and have joined separatists opposed to Indian rule in its part of Kashmir, Indian defense officials said on Friday.
Some of the militants have set up base close to a cease-fire line between Indian and Pakistani forces in the disputed Himalayan region but there was no evidence any of the al Qaeda members had crossed into Indian Kashmir, a defense official said.
http://my.aol.com/news/news_story.psp?type=1&cat=0600&id=0205311132370147Bad stuff if true. Those guys would love to start a big war...
Steve
Oregon, United States
Member Since: April 12, 2002
entire network: 455 Posts
KitMaker Network: 149 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:38 AM UTC
Losing the World Cup Soccer tournament was mentined above...Don't laugh, guys, it has already happened. May I direct you to the 1969 Football War between El Salvador and Honduras. The usual dissing associated with sportsmatches was apparently too much for their Latin Machismo, and so they went at it hammer and tongs for a few days. The air battles were surreal; both sides had guys score kills with their F4U Corsairs...
If it could happen there, it could happen on the Indian subcontinent. Scary stupid, that's what I'd call it.
Greg
"You could probably use some armor. A Sherman can give you a very nice...edge."
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Scott--this is moving towards the surreal. Are these folks really that fixated on the dirt that is Kashmir so as to destroy themselves rather than figure out there is better way to resolve the issue. By the way, does anyone know what the issues(s) are in this dispute?
DJ
dj,you are trying to get some type of understanding of all this,personally i dont think that is possible.dont try to get into their mind set,you will drive yourself crazy.you can not rationalize what is insane
Scott--You hit the nail on the head "insane" is the only rational explanation. Yet, I detect that we are all challenged on how to contain the madness. I am trying to comprehend why anyone would consider destroying themselves over one of the dirtest holes on the face of the earth. It is not like Kashmir holds some rich deposits of anything. The people are kept in an almost perpetual state of bondage by the ignorance of those who profess some great insight into an endowment by a Supreme Being. I checked all the available sources and I can not find a definitive explanation of the point of dispute other than the both claim soverignty over a hole in the ground. Can anyone help me before Scott recommends I be sedated and placed in a straight jacket?
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 01:43 AM UTC
why don't they have a soccer match, winner gets Kashmir........period, end of story
simplistic, yes......the alterative is too horrible to contemplate.
chris
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
why don't they have a soccer match, winner gets Kashmir........period, end of story
simplistic, yes......the alterative is too horrible to contemplate.
chris
Chris--now that is innovative! Hold the game in a neutral field area, international refs, worldwide coverage, no audience to charge onto the field, etc...Great thought!
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Texas, United States
Member Since: March 20, 2002
entire network: 525 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:10 AM UTC
OR BETTER YET: Why not let the two country leaders face off with each other in Tanks,( i.e. Pattons idea) and the winner gets Kashmir; End of story End Game!!
DAGGER-1 " When Science Fails, Brute Force Wins"
TEAM BRAVO: Superior Weapons & Firepower, Training & Leadership, Victory First
The World Next !!
New York, United States
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 1,065 Posts
KitMaker Network: 497 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 02:31 AM UTC
It may sound like a great idea that people just say "let's all get along" or settle differences with sporting matches. I think it's a bit childish of a notion though.
Man is, after all, a warlike creature who is very good at destroying things. Maybe even better at destruction than at creation. Look at the site we are participating on here. We're not building ice cream trucks and dioramas of playgrounds. Not to say that we are war mongers or love death, but it seems it is part of our nature. Just look at history, as far back as recorded, if you have any doubts. Conflict after conflict after conflict. What war hasn't been thought of as the "war to end all wars?"
Not sure about others, but when I was a kid we played army, not tea parties.
As for the notion that this is a stupid thing to go to war over (Kashmir) most things that have started wars have been pretty silly when you look back through history. Not that some wars are unnecessary or unjust. I for one and certainly glad the Allies fought and won WWII.
Remember, the people in Pakistan and India may not see the dispute a trivial and stupid. They may believe that it is necessary for their survival. Not that that makes them right or justifies what may happen. People belive what they are told to believe.
Imagine if a diplomat on a mission of peace were to propose a soccer game for the "keys and registration" to Kashmir. Do you think the US would have said "let's let a baseball game determine who controls the pacific" to the Japanese is 1941?
The questions here are not "boy this is a dumb thing to fight over" or "this is insane." We already have those answers. (The answer is yes.) The question is, what can be done to avert this confilct escalating and how can it be kept from reoccuring.
That's what things are really about in the post Cold War world. It's not just superpowers who have the toys to kill millions.
Welcome to the 21st century. Ain't technology grand?
Steve
Texas, United States
Member Since: March 20, 2002
entire network: 525 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 03:05 AM UTC
AS FAR AS TO WHAT CAN BE DONE TO DEVERT THIS POTENTIAL DISASTER??
I'm not totally certain that thier is anything that can be done. We MIGHT possibly be able to put this war off for a little while longer. "BUT" when two Bullies or even two countries that are so set and determined to blow each other up. And when other nations who knew better that to give this sort of technology to them, End up being on the receiving end of these WMD
then they will realize just how stupid they really were. And will realize that they are just as much to blame for this whloe mess as the IDIOTS trying to pursue this issue by Force Of Arms.
DAGGER-1 "When Science Fails, Brute Force Wins"
TEAM BRAVO: Superior Weapons & Firepower, Training & Leadership, Victory First
The World Next !!
Alabama, United States
Member Since: May 07, 2002
entire network: 179 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 05:26 AM UTC
What I think is to happen is this:
- India and Pakistan mass troops at Kashmir border line (already has happened).
- India invades the Pakistini side of Kashmir since they have more convential troops and weapons.
- Pakistan strikes back by launching one of their nukes to New Dehli or another major Indian city.
- India fires back with one of their nukes to Islamabad.
- Nuclear war continues and the US and other major countries try to convince the fighting to stop.
- Pakistan runs out of nukes but India, with more, does not, but stops firing and the fighting is over.
- With huge casaulties on each side no one has won and Kashmir remains disputed.
This is just what I think
may happen.
Mark
Uusimaa, Finland
Member Since: March 07, 2002
entire network: 1,088 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 06:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
This is just what I think may happen.
Let´s just pray this won´t happen...What also worries me is that if the war really begins and especially if the Big Ones are used, how will the western world react to that...
Toni
Pig # 60
....................................................................................
O-Ren Ishii: You didn't think it was gonna be that easy, did you?
The Bride: You know, for a second there, yeah, I kinda did.
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 08:08 AM UTC
to whomever:
in a nuclear exchange no one wins and those two countries have millions dead and a lot of polluted, useless land. Kashmir will be a moot point then.
Virginia, United States
Member Since: February 05, 2002
entire network: 6,149 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,551 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 09:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What I think is to happen is this:
- India and Pakistan mass troops at Kashmir border line (already has happened).
- India invades the Pakistini side of Kashmir since they have more convential troops and weapons.
- Pakistan strikes back by launching one of their nukes to New Dehli or another major Indian city.
- India fires back with one of their nukes to Islamabad.
- Nuclear war continues and the US and other major countries try to convince the fighting to stop.
- Pakistan runs out of nukes but India, with more, does not, but stops firing and the fighting is over.
- With huge casaulties on each side no one has won and Kashmir remains disputed.
This is just what I think may happen.
Mark
Let me pose another course that we may want to consider. Should the US and Britian (for example) send forces into India and Pakistan to disarm them of their nukes? Is that feasible?
DJ
DJ Judge
COL (R), USA
"Tanker Boots do not a Tanker Make."
Ontario, Canada
Member Since: April 12, 2002
entire network: 831 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 09:42 AM UTC
Tough question. If the US and GB had about million troops to sort these two countries out, Perhaps it would be possible. Pakistan has about a million troops of their own. It is also well equipped by the standards of that part of the world. I would suggest that sending Western troops into that area would only create a wider problem. Unfortunately the UN remains toothless and on a good day could muster at most a divisions worth of troops from the international community. What really annoys me as aserving member of the Canadian Army is that our government has sent hundreds of millions of $ to both countries over the past few decades in aid while they spend their own money on arms and the Canadian Army languishes. I doubt that any allies are going to come to either sides aid so perhaps we (The West) should let them slug it out and pick up the pieces afterwards.
there has been a Peacekeeping mission there since 1949 which was and remains a complete failure because neither side pays any attention to it. i imagine the observers are hunkered down in some bunker somewhere.
Paul Fredenburg
LCol (Ret'd)
Royal Canadian Engineers
President Trackjam Models
http://www.trackjam.com/
Oklahoma, United States
Member Since: March 01, 2002
entire network: 6,043 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 09:45 AM UTC
Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
Colorado, United States
Member Since: January 12, 2002
entire network: 5,000 Posts
KitMaker Network: 1,210 Posts
Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 10:15 AM UTC
Having read through the posts, and having really wanted to not participate, I hesitate to mutter anything. But, being the moron that I was born to be............
I mean NO disrespect to anyone, anyperson, anycat, or anydog. But. Has anyone applied basic numerical psychology to this.....conflict?
Tread.
You're a better man than me, Gunga Din!
Ohio, United States
Member Since: December 01, 2001
entire network: 146 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 11:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Explain to me one thing why is it allways the US that has to take on the role of World policeman. Why can't we just mind our own business for a change. The exploding of the World Trade Center buildings was brought upon us by Helping the Jewish people against the Palestinians. So what will they want to blow up now if we step in. I think let them blow up each other,and we will pick up the pieces. So they can't put the blame back on us. Our forces are spread thin enough right now we can't be fighting all over the world unless we put more men under arms first. My $1.00 worth
I agree with you....let the rest of the world kill itself and mind our own business
"Keep him tied it makes him well, he's getting better can't you tell?"
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 11:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Scott--this is moving towards the surreal. Are these folks really that fixated on the dirt that is Kashmir so as to destroy themselves rather than figure out there is better way to resolve the issue. By the way, does anyone know what the issues(s) are in this dispute?
DJ
dj,you are trying to get some type of understanding of all this,personally i dont think that is possible.dont try to get into their mind set,you will drive yourself crazy.you can not rationalize what is insane
Scott--You hit the nail on the head "insane" is the only rational explanation. Yet, I detect that we are all challenged on how to contain the madness. I am trying to comprehend why anyone would consider destroying themselves over one of the dirtest holes on the face of the earth. It is not like Kashmir holds some rich deposits of anything. The people are kept in an almost perpetual state of bondage by the ignorance of those who profess some great insight into an endowment by a Supreme Being. I checked all the available sources and I can not find a definitive explanation of the point of dispute other than the both claim soverignty over a hole in the ground. Can anyone help me before Scott recommends I be sedated and placed in a straight jacket?
DJ
i dont think pakistan or india can fully understand that level of destruction.
will someone please put DJ in a straight jacket before he hurts himself
Indiana, United States
Member Since: May 11, 2002
entire network: 602 Posts
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Posted: Friday, May 31, 2002 - 11:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
why don't they have a soccer match, winner gets Kashmir........period, end of story
simplistic, yes......the alterative is too horrible to contemplate.
chris
Chris--now that is innovative! Hold the game in a neutral field area, international refs, worldwide coverage, no audience to charge onto the field, etc...Great thought!
DJ
well pak and dj have completely flipped,so i geuss it is up to me to take action.......................hello batman?
