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WHAT IF:Stalingrad fell to the Germans
HunterCottage
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2002 - 05:02 AM UTC
There is a new series of WWII Battles on VHS that my son got a trial tape of the Battle of Stalingrad. Quite informative, but extremely boring in parts we will not continue the subscription...

My view point is from the fact that the German 6th Army basically got wiped out because they advanced too quickly for the logistics to work.

I wonder how long the war would have been extended if Hitler got to the oil fields as he was planning to get in Plan Blue.
staff_Jim
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2002 - 05:35 AM UTC
Well I am not as well-read on the eastern front as the west. But I would say that Stalingrad was definately a turning point in the war. Russian moral certainly would have suffered greatly as a result of this loss as Stalin had basically promised that it would not (kind of like Gerring's empty promise that no bombs would fall on Berlin).

Another key element in the Germans winning the eastern front early would have been the advanced deployment of better medium and heavy tanks. What if, for instance, the tiger and panther had been in the field a year earlier? hmmm

Jim
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2002 - 07:45 AM UTC
The larger tanks would have gotten stuck in the mud quicker. That over-leafing road wheel system was extremely susceptible to having the mud packed in there and freezing solid. The Germans designed a tank for the vast northern German plains.

But if Stalingrad had fallen to the Germans, they would have taken the wind out of the Russians. It also may have spurned them on to take back the city at all cost, even to level the city.
HunterCottage
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2002 - 01:43 PM UTC
Mud is a factor I never even thought of. Mud must be a tankers nightmare, more so that tree and such.

From what I've seen in the tape, Stalingrad was definitly muddy. My next thought is what should have the Germans done?
generalzod
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2002 - 10:39 PM UTC
I've always wondered how that war would've turned out if the Germans would've used the Ukrainins in the eastern front From what I understand the Ukrainians had no love for Stalin
HunterCottage
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 04:00 AM UTC
The film stated that most everything done during the middle to late parts of the war Stalin did was by scare tactics. You did it or die. Officers shooting at their own troops who wouldn't advance. It was either go forward and die or retreat and die. Not too much of a choice there.

Seeing this Hitler should of utilized this hatred to his advantage with the Ukraines. If Hitler could have gotten to the oil fields in the Caucus area, I think the war would have waged on a few more years but that the outcome would have been the same, but that German would have been much larger than it was/is. Maybe Russia wouldn't have played such a large role as "superpower".
ArmouredSprue
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 - 08:40 PM UTC
To Hunter Cottage
I do agree with your last remarks, interresting!
Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2002 - 03:40 AM UTC
stalingrad fall........yeah!!!!! if also the germans treated their allies better....oh well who knows!? speculation is fun ain't it though
Bombshell
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Posted: Sunday, May 12, 2002 - 04:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The film stated that most everything done during the middle to late parts of the war Stalin did was by scare tactics. You did it or die. Officers shooting at their own troops who wouldn't advance. It was either go forward and die or retreat and die. Not too much of a choice there.

Seeing this Hitler should of utilized this hatred to his advantage with the Ukraines. If Hitler could have gotten to the oil fields in the Caucus area, I think the war would have waged on a few more years but that the outcome would have been the same, but that German would have been much larger than it was/is. Maybe Russia wouldn't have played such a large role as "superpower".



From what I have read I don't think that would have happened. In the book The German Generals Talk there is this quote from Field Marshal von Kleist:

"In the early stages of my advance I met little organized resistance. As soon as the Russian forces were by-passed, most of the troops seemed more intent to find the way back to their homes than to continue fighting. But when we advanced into the Caucasus, the forces we met there were local troops, who fought more stubbornly to defend their homes than to defend Bolshevism"

Cheers,

~CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
Arthur
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 08:09 AM UTC
good book...Stalingrad,by Antony Beevors, check it out
Arthur
sourkraut
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Posted: Friday, May 17, 2002 - 11:39 AM UTC
on to moscow
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 12:16 PM UTC
"Ob Sturm oder Schneit................................
AndersHeintz
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:47 PM UTC
I also Love the movie Stalingrad, however, I have not found this in America to rent or buy anywhere, so does any one know where to get it at?
Arthur
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 03:54 AM UTC
hey Pak......dinnae ken whit yir takin aboot
Arthur
am alba mannich
m1garand
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I also Love the movie Stalingrad, however, I have not found this in America to rent or buy anywhere, so does any one know where to get it at?



Theres one here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/6304287313/qid=1022010987/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/104-3166844-5435943

and here:

http://video.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?userid=173ACSLZ1I&EAN=720917503622
Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:25 AM UTC
hey arthur, first line of Der Panzerlied

not enough dead russians
Arthur
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:24 AM UTC
hey Pak...should have rememberd that Robert Shaw was good at it.
Arthur
am alba mannich
Eagle
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Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 03:29 AM UTC
I think Oppenheimers toys would have been deployed in a different area for the first time......
Posted: Thursday, May 23, 2002 - 11:57 AM UTC
if only................. i think what if the ukranians would have joined the germans(provided they treat them well) they could have. the city should have been first bypassed, then taken under siege by follow-up units. the caucasus should have been cut-off not invaded, left the wehrmacht trusting weak allies and its southern flank dangerously exposed. army group a should never have existed.